Manchuria, China, and the Far Eastern Front

[Top-Break]

Hello all,

I was thinking about Soviet/Pact forces in the Far East (Mongolia, China, Siberia, Sakhalin & Kuriles) and I've been musing about the possibility of a Soviet-backed Manchurian People's Republic.

Canon sources mention that the Soviets have a series of cantonments in the area, and have at least 10 divisions in Manchuria itself. The possibility of a Soviet-backed MPR is also supported by the existance in 2300AD of Manchuria.

To start things off, I've written an order-of-battle for Manchuria.

Manchurian Peoples Army (Mǎn rnm-n jūn)

Order of Battle as of January 1, 1999.

Manchurian Peoples Guard Corps
1st Ni!nqīng de mǎnzhōu Peoples Guard Tank Division
101st Guards Tank Regiment
102nd Guards Tank Regiment
103rd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment
1st Guards Artillery Battalion

2nd D qu!n Peoples Guard Motorized Rifle Division
201st Guards Tank Regiment
202nd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment
203rd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment
2nd Guards Artillery Battalion

3rd Tiě chu- Peoples Guard Motorized Rifle Division
301st Guards Tank Regiment
302nd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment
303rd Guards Motorized Rifle Regiment
3rd Guards Artillery Battalion

38th National Pacification Army
113th Motorized Rifle Division
501st Motorized Rifle Regiment
502nd Motorized Rifle Regiment
113rd Tank Battalion
1061st Artillery Battalion

114th Motorized Pacification Rifle Division
901st Motorized Rifle Regiment
602nd Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
603rd Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
1062nd Artillery Battalion

116th Motorized Pacification Rifle Division
904th Motorized Rifle Regiment
605th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
606th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
1063rd Artillery Battalion

39th National Pacification Army
117th Motorized Rifle Division
503rd Motorized Rifle Regiment
504th Motorized Rifle Regiment
117th Tank Battalion
1063rd Artillery Battalion

119th Motorized Pacification Rifle Division
905th Motorized Rifle Regiment
607th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
608th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
1064th Artillery Battalion

120th Motorized Pacification Rifle Division
906th Motorized Rifle Regiment
609th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
610th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
1065th Artillery Battalion

42nd National Pacification Army
124th Motorized Rifle Division
505th Motorized Rifle Regiment
506th Motorized Rifle Regiment
124th Tank Battalion
1066th Artillery Battalion

125th Motorized Pacification Rifle Division
907th Motorized Rifle Regiment
611th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
612th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
1067th Artillery Battalion

126th Motorized Pacification Rifle Division
908th Motorized Rifle Regiment
613th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
614th Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiment
1068th Artillery Battalion


Ni!nqīng de mǎnzhōu : Young Manchuria
D qu!n : Great Fist
Tiě chu- : Iron Mace

Tank Divisions, Regiments, and Battalions are organized along Soviet lines.

Guards Tank Regiments are equipped with older model T-72 Ural MBTs.

Motor Rifle Division Tank Battalions are equipped with T-54/55 or Type 59 MBTs.

Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiments are truck-borne light infantry.

Motorized Rifle Regiments in the Motorized Rifle Divisions are mounted on BMP or Chinese-equivalent Tracked APCs.

Motorized Rifle Regiments in the Motorized Pacification Rifle Divisions are mounted on BTR or Chinese-equivalent Wheeled APCs.

Additional material will be posted as I come up with it.

Feedback, recommentdations, and suggestions are invited.

[pmulcahy11b]

I can't say anything but good post, because I haven't thought about that theater of the Twilight War much -- it's was one of the most cataclysmic theaters of the Twilight War, yet almost no development of it was ever done by GDW or later on online.

[Top-Break]

Thanks

Thanks for the good word.

I'll see what other goodies I can come up with. A Soviet-Pact based game in Manchuria would certainly be an interesting scenario.

9th Company meets Red Dawn. . .

[Mohoender]

My turn to thank you

Good work and very nice idea. I had the same idea in my game but failed to come up with anything like you have done. I'll use yours and this will be of a great help. I can't wait for your next post. Anything on airforce and naval elements

[Top-Break]

Air Force follow-on

Glad to see the response, and I'm working on it.

On a related point, does anyone have any good information about the Chinese People's Liberation Army and the PLA Air Force in the '90s.

[pmulcahy11b]

Glad to see the response, and I'm working on it.

On a related point, does anyone have any good information about the Chinese People's Liberation Army and the PLA Air Force in the '90s.

Oh hey! I happen to have just bought a handy book on that. I covers the PLAAF from 1951 to Present (and the date of the book is 2003). What do you need to know

[Top-Break]

Just the thing

If it has an order-of-battle and a list of major airbases, that would be perfect. I have a book on world air forces, unfortunately its dated from the 1970s and it's PLAAF data reflects both a lack of hard information and China's Maoist military thinking of the day.

Let me know what you have there. I may have to snag a copy for myself. . .

Thanks

[Webstral]

Lots of hard work in there. Thanks for contributing.

[Fusilier]

Canon sources mention that the Soviets have a series of cantonments in the area, and have at least 10 divisions in Manchuria itself. The possibility of a Soviet-backed MPR is also supported by the existance in 2300AD of Manchuria.

Tank Divisions, Regiments, and Battalions are organized along Soviet lines.

Guards Tank Regiments are equipped with older model T-72 Ural MBTs.

Motor Rifle Division Tank Battalions are equipped with T-54/55 or Type 59 MBTs.

Motorized Pacification Rifle Regiments are truck-borne light infantry.

Motorized Rifle Regiments in the Motorized Rifle Divisions are mounted on BMP or Chinese-equivalent Tracked APCs.

Motorized Rifle Regiments in the Motorized Pacification Rifle Divisions are mounted on BTR or Chinese-equivalent Wheeled APCs.

Feedback, recommentdations, and suggestions are invited.

I think this idea is great and applaud you for contributing this, however I have some questions to the reasoning behind the tanks, APCs and trucks.

Where exactly do all of these armored vehicles come from A look at the Soviet troops in the area reflects the scarcity of armor.

It wasn't long before 1999 that much of Chinese army was leg mobile. Would it not be more realistic to have all of these units light infantry with perhaps only small armored force as a operational maneuver group for the Corps.

[kota1342000]

Great stuff! I had thought of coming up with something for the Far East front around 2000, the farthest I had gotten was using Merc's Gazetteer as a road map for remaining Chinese factions that would be fighting the Soviets and/or each other.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

I'm not suggesting it isn't worth pursuing, but didn't the Soviets engage in saturation nuclear bombardment Is there anything left there or is it just a massive no-man's land of mile-wide craters and fallout, dotted with enough skulls to build a few tens of thousands of Giza Pyramid sized mounds

[Top-Break]

I think this idea is great and applaud you for contributing this, however I have some questions to the reasoning behind the tanks, APCs and trucks.

Where exactly do all of these armored vehicles come from A look at the Soviet troops in the area reflects the scarcity of armor.

It wasn't long before 1999 that much of Chinese army was leg mobile. Would it not be more realistic to have all of these units light infantry with perhaps only small armored force as a operational maneuver group for the Corps.

The order of battle is the paper one. The sort of thing that delusional bunker-bound senior REMFs consult while pushing unit counters around a map table. The composition notes are for what they would look like under ideal conditions, or when they were originally established.

Most of the motorised rifles would be straight-leg, and even so-called tank units would likely have armored cars instead of tracks.

As far as I've imagined (work in progress disclaimer) the Manchurian People's Republic, and its Army are largely public relations exercises and an attempt to make up for a shortage of Soviet troops.

As for the "pyramids of glowing rubble" notions, my thinking is that most of the tactical nukes in the east were aimed at pursuing PLA formations, airfields, railyards, etc. I expect that the Beijing and Shanghai regions would be serving as a nightlight for the Australians, though.

[Webstral]

We don't really have an accurate count of strikes or megatonnage used against China. My impression from reading the v1 chronology is that China got hit harder than the US. I don't know how much harder, though.

[Fusilier]

I'm not suggesting it isn't worth pursuing, but didn't the Soviets engage in saturation nuclear bombardment Is there anything left there or is it just a massive no-man's land of mile-wide craters and fallout, dotted with enough skulls to build a few tens of thousands of Giza Pyramid sized mounds

"The Chinese were literally blasted back to the Middle Ages."
- USSR Challenge article

[raketenjagdpanzer]

"The Chinese were literally blasted back to the Middle Ages."
- USSR Challenge article

Yeah; that's what I'm saying. I mean I realize that Twilight 2000 != Red Dawn and likewise, but one of the great lines from Powers Boothe is when Daryl asks:

"Well who is on our side"

"The British...they won't be in it much longer. Them and four hundred million screaming China men."

"I thought there were a billion screaming Chinamen."

<tosses cup of bourbon into fire> "There were."