Gun Trucks

[Brother in Arms]

I have reading a lot about Vietnam Era gun tucks which where generally built from M35A1, 5 ton cargo trucks of the time period. Many of these vehicles had interesting names brightly painted on there sides. Names like "Eve of Destruction" "uncle Meat" "Canned Heat" "The Assassin !" to name a few.

Often times these trucks where equipped with scavenged heavy infantry weapons like the 7.62 M60 machine gun, .50 M2HB as well as the GE 7.62 Vulcan Mini gun. Most trucks only had a few machine guns a one known as "Nancy" was eqquiped with a Anti-aircraft M2 qaud mount.

These trucks where equipped with improvised armor plated that was welded to the bed to give the gunners protection from ambushes and roadside bombs. Some of the trucks had stripped M113 armored personnel carriers sitting in the back of the bed to provide a fighting platform with overhead protection as well as turrets for the machine gunners.

Or course these trucks where laden with ammunition, spare tires ect. Many of them where armed/armored Maintenance trucks for the repair as well as defense of other trucks in the convoy.

Has anyone used anything like this in there twilight gaming sessions I had a group of Czech troops driving around a stolen Ural that had a ZPU-2 in the back.

[kato13]

This was from someone's (graebarde's) 5th division reorganization document


275 Cavalry (provisional)
<MAD MAX

The ADA battalion was in a like situation, due to lack of viable air threat, and missiles to place on target. Matthews, at the urging of the Air Cavalry commander, authorized the formation of what was referred to as the <Mad Max Battalion. It consists of highly modified HMMWVs, 5-ton cargo trucks, all converted into gun platforms reminiscent of the Vietnam era gun trucks, and a few home-brewed FAVs. Theses are located in the 275 Cavalry, a provisional unit based on one of the division attack helicopter battalions. These vehicles are <farmed out for convoy escort, base security, and fire support for light battalions as needed, or available. The number and types of vehicles in the battalion continues to grow, based on salvaged weapons and platforms, with a current battery of 23 vehicles.

Headquarters 12
Maintenance and Log 18
Vehicle crews 105

Mod 1 5-ton 1x 7.62 minigun crew 4-6 3x
<GRIM REAPER <SHOGUN <ACE OF SPADES

Mod 2 5-ton 1x 30mm chaingun crew 5-6 1x
<UNDERTAKER

Mod 3 5-ton LWB 4x 2.75 rocket pods crew 4-6 1x
<SWOOSHER

Mod 4 5-ton 1x AGL, 2x GPMG crew 5-7 3x
<REBEL ROUSER <BABY CAKES <SPIRIT OF AMERICA

Mod 5 5-ton 1x HMG, 1x AGL, 2x GPMG crew 6-8 1x
<ROAD WARRIOR

Mod 6 AVENGER 4x HELLFIRE, 1x 25mm chaingun crew 2-3 2x
<HELLS ANGEL <PAULS REVENGE

Mod 7 HMMWV 1x AGL crew 2-3 1x
<SCORPION

Mod 8 HMMWV 1x HMG, 1x GPMG crew 4-5 2x
<THUNDER <BLITZKREIG

Mod 9 HMMWV 3x GPMG crew 4-5 3x
<SALLY ANN <TWISTER <BALLS TO THE WALL

Mod 10 FAV 1x AGL crew 2-3 1x
<LITTLE THUNDER

Mod 11 FAV 1x HMG crew 2-3 2x
<DAISY CHAIN <SLEEPY JOE

Mod 12 10-ton HEMET 1x 23mm quad, 1x 82mm <pickle mortar, 2x 30mm AGL, 2x GPMG
<THE BEAST crew 10-12 1x

Mod 13 5-ton 2x 7.62 minigun, 1x AGL crew 6-8 1x
<VALKYRIE

Mod 14 5-ton M165 Vulcan ADA APC chassis crew 4-8 1x <BUZZ SAW

[Raellus]

Has anyone used anything like this in there twilight gaming sessions I had a group of Czech troops driving around a stolen Ural that had a ZPU-2 in the back.

The PCs in my campaign just jacked a Polish KAMAZ 6x6 with a ZU-23-2 mounted in the bed. I'll try to post some pics sometime soon.

I think Targan's players had a HMET bristling with all kinds of weapons.

IRL, the Soviets employed various ad-hoc gun-trucks on convoy escort duty in Afghanistan.

BTW, B.I.A., I am a big fan of gun-trucks. Any particular books on the topic you could recommend for me

[Brother in Arms]

Raellus

Technically I think both the Ural I mentioned and the KAMAZ these days would be called technicals (a sorry attempt at a pun) I think the difference between the two would be the ad hoc Armor that the gun trucks had.

I didn't know the soviets used them in Afghanistan....the US used gun trucks again in Iraq, For the same basic purpose as in RVN.

There are a ton of pages about gun trucks. In fact one group of fellows rebuilt a gun truck in new jersey and collegue of his wrote a book called

The Hard Ride
by James Lyles
Volume I
ISBN #971-93037-1-9

Its an exspensive but awesome book volume 2 should be out soon and it covers other gun vehicles. Like Jeeps 3/4 tons ect.

Check out the interweb though you wont be disappointed.

Brother in Arms

[Brother in Arms]

Oh I found this today though its more about technicals than gun trucks it shows some pretty crude armed vehicles in Somalia in the early 90's I think this is totally the sort of stuff that would show up in T2K

http://membres.lycos.fr/France40/techphot.html

[Matt Wiser]

There was a Challenge magazine article that dealt with gun trucks; they were M-113 chassis mounted on trucks mostly, but some were custom-built. Lots of machine guns and Mark-19 AGLs installed. One variant had an M-901 TOW vehicle mounted, so instant anti-armor vehicle.

One author called the Vietnam gun truckers "Mad Max" types, and one does wonder if the creators of that character had the gun truckers (the Aussies had them too in SVN) in mind. Incidentally, one of the gun truckers won a MOH, so be warned: those vehicles can be dangerous (along with their drivers).

Our group has one gun truck: a captured Ural 375 truck with a ZU-23 mounted in the back. The gun's on its second truck: it was previously mounted on another 375 before some marauders got lucky and RPG'd the truck's engine. That was their last bit of good luck, as they didn't survive the resulting fire-fight.

[O'Borg]

Probably some of the earliest Technicals were used by the LRDG :



This is a posed photo, but note the passenger side MG has no trigger - that's because its a Vickers K model salvaged from an aircraft and the firing mechanism is worked by pushing the home-made shoulder stock forwards.
The LRDG & later SAS liked the Lewis MG because its high rate of fire worked well when firing on the move. Plus the pan magazines fitted nicely into an army issue biscuit tin for easy storage

Not that the LRDG were the first people to modify their vehicles...

[Graebarde]

Was in a game where we (Chalkie and I) built the original BEAST. It was based on a Russian TEL (launcher vehicle for mid sized missiles) though don't recall the name designation. It had (IRRC) quaq 23, 82 Valsik (what we called the Pickel, from Valasic pickles) some PKs and at least on AGL. Heck the crew was numbered at least ten, with additional ride-a-longs. Campaign died before the vehicle did.

I went on to construct the list of gun trucks for my defunct OpFred campaign, though they were not directly avail to the PCs.

Grae

[Raellus]

Technically I think both the Ural I mentioned and the KAMAZ these days would be called technicals (a sorry attempt at a pun) I think the difference between the two would be the ad hoc Armor that the gun trucks had.

So, armor is the difference between gun-truck and "technical" My understanding is that a "technical" is just some sort of truck (civilian models, especially) where someone has plunked an HMG or light AA gun on the back. I think the term was coined in Somalia. If I remember correctly- and I probably don't- Somali militias came up with it (the name, not the concept).

It seems like a purely semantic distinction to me.

The KAMAZ I mentioned is purpose built as a SPAA gun. I'll post a pick or two this weekend some time.

Graebarde, I like your list. A "Flying Battalion" is a cool idea and one that I fully endorse.

May I suggest "Boudica" as a truck name, in honor of the photo O'Borg posted.

[Graebarde]

Graebarde, I like your list. A "Flying Battalion" is a cool idea and one that I fully endorse.

May I suggest "Boudica" as a truck name, in honor of the photo O'Borg posted.

I like that "Boudica". Armed to the gills, and crewed by women. Hummmm.. gives me ideas for some other names too, and female crew, or at least commanded by a female.

Thanks for jarring the rust.
Grae

[Mohoender]

Here is an MTVR currently used by US troops in Iraq. Up armored truck are coming out as soon as war starts.

[Raellus]

Here is an MTVR currently used by US troops in Iraq. Up armored truck are coming out as soon as war starts.

Nice pic, Mo. That thing is a beast.

I'm not sure you woud see many armored trucks until later in the war when...

a.) Dedicated AFVs became rare and replacements ceased to appear

b.) The front become more fluid and lines of supply became more exposed

Armored and "gun" trucks tend to appear when supply lines are threatened and supply convoys require armed escorts, hence the historical precendents of American involvement in Vietnam and Iraq and American and Soviet involvement in Afghanistan.

[Mohoender]

The main advantage that you get from armored truck is that they are often cheap and easy to make if not always that efficient. Nevertheless, when that is the best you have, you do with it, just look at the Haganah before and at the time of Israel's creation.

They were using sandwich armored truck that were made from two thin metal sheets with plywood in between. I'm not sure if that would still be efficient today but that might deserve some thought. Any idea

Here is a picture of sandwich truck, the only one I found.

[Marc]

The main advantage that you get from armored truck is that they are often cheap and easy to make if not always that efficient. Nevertheless, when that is the best you have, you do with it, just look at the Haganah before and at the time of Israel's creation.

They were using sandwich armored truck that were made from two thin metal sheets with plywood in between. I'm not sure if that would still be efficient today but that might deserve some thought. Any idea

Here is a picture of sandwich truck, the only one I found.

In my village, during the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939), an existing tractor factory, specialized in the production of tracked tractors, was converted to an armored vehicle factory by the Republican government under the name of "Fbrica Z" ( Z Factory). My great-grandfather, an appreciated blacksmith at that time, worked there. As usually in time of war, child must help to the war effort, and my grandmother (who had transmitted me the whole history) was not an exception, working at the side of her father until the very last moment, when they escaped to France through the Pyrenees (she was about 14 years old then). She explained me that in the most desperate moments of lack of supplies, a kind of sandwich armor was produced in the factory. In a recent documentation published by a local historian, I've found the confirmation (explained in more technical terms) about the sandwich armour described by my grandmother.

In this case, between the two metal plates, the workers of the Fbrica Z used compressed sheep wool extracted from mattresses (I hope it would be correct in English...). The bullet penetrated the outer plate and, hopefully, lost enough velocity in the wool to do not pierce the inner plate. Of course, always talking about small arms fire. I have no idea about the effectiveness of this type of armour, but I suppose that, in a very rudimentary way, uses the capacity to absorb kinetic energy of a dense and flexible material (compressed wool in this case) like a modern personal armour. This type of sandwich armour was used in light tanks.

And returning specifically to the thread, one of the main works in the Fbrica Z was to add armor plates to the Chevrolet trucks bought by the Republican government to the United States. Sadly, I have no photos of these trucks.

[Mohoender]

I would not have thought of wool, that opens plenty of possibilities. Great story Marc. I'll have to think of that in terms of gameplay.