German III Corps?

[Fusilier]

Hey,

Anyone know if any of the books mention the a detailed location for the German III Corps. Its the other half of German 3rd Army that US 11th Corps was a part of during the 2000 offensive.

German divisions, 6th, 21st, and 29th are all listed as "Northern Poland"... but where

I'm running a game on RPoL set on the Baltic Coast and was only going by the maps and orbat locations of what is printed. Then I realized the entire other half of the Army is mentioned but not shown.

I can't seem to find more detail in any of the source books. Help or suggestions

[Graebarde]

One of the modules gave the locations of the divisions, but don't recall which and don't have access to the books ATM, however IIRC the III Ge Korps was to the west of the US corps, mostly NW Poland from the coast south to the river that runs through Poznan, and from the Oder east to the corps dividing line. I'll see if I can comeup with the 'exacts' unless someone else can that has ready access to the info.

Grae

[Marc]

Navigating through the web I've found a nice map that I think it will be useful.
You will find the units of the III German Corps in the Baltic Coast (green stars). No idea about the information sources used to draw it.

http://leonpoifiles.googlepages.com/UpdatedCampaignMap.pdf

[Graebarde]

That lone blue star at Kalisz sure stands out bold. Makes you wonder what genius planned that operation

Grae

[Marc]

I was thinking the same

I've been reading the movements of the 5ht Infantry Division, described in the "Escape from Kalisz" adventure for the campaign we're running. These movements seems to me somewhat strange, if the objective of the offensive was the Baltic Coast. The advance of the 5th ID from the departure position follows the South / South-East direction during more than 150Km! Too far away as for cover the southern flank of the advance, if it is what the genius planner had intended for the 5th. Anyway, the commander of the 5th lead his unit to a good mousetrap showing great gallantry.

For sure the response to "Good luck, you're on your own" could be "Don't worry, better alone than in bad company".

[Snake Eyes]

The 5th was sacrificed as a smokescreen to cover the Reset mission in Lodz.

[Benjamin]

Per "Going Home"

All German divisions seem to have been withdrawn from Polish territory following the failure of Operation Advent Crown, and by the time Operation Omega begins they are all back in their home country.

There are two locations listed for each unit. The special handouts meoked secret have III German Corps in Kiel along with the 29 PD. The 6 PGD is in Stralsund and the 21 PGD is in Neustrelitz. The Danish Jutland Division is said to be in Rostock. This is dated 25th of September 2000.

In Referee's Update section of the supplement (pages 12-18) is said to still be in Kiel with the 29 PD now in Lubeck. 6 PGD is in Hamburg and the 21 PGD is now in Breman cooperating with the evacuation. Jutland Division has returned to Denmark and no longer subordinate to III Corps.

I can't find any canon info as to their locations prior to or doing Advent Crown but I hope this info helps.

Benjamin

[Fusilier]

Thanks fellas. Too bad the the German involvement wasn't detailed for the operation.

[Graebarde]

That's the reason I changed the battle plans for my Operation Fredric. The plan of III Army was to consolidate all the area north of the Warta and west of the Vistula, old Prussia. At the same time they tasked the Yanks to secure the coal fields north of the Warta in the vic. Konin-Kolo area, where the Warta comes from the south and turns west.

The attacks were also prepped with insertion of contact teams. They were hopeful of getting PVA units to turn and drive the Soviets from their country, but alas that wasn't overy successful.

But 5 ID(M) did have a bonified mission, the coal fields. Getting caught by the horde from the east wasn't in the game plan for them however. I had my players as members of a rifle company HQ section (cook, clerk, first sergeant, supply sergeant, medic, mechanic) and stragglers picked up (tank crew from destroyed M1 (they ran out of ammo and fuel) an engineer, a female doctor (whose ambulance hit a mine evacuating critical-injured) and three wounded not hurt badly enough to really deserve the ride in an ambulance.

The 5th was having a fighting withdrawl, but only the elements still north of the Warta. When the pickings got easy, with relatively light resistance, and a lull, the corps commander ordered the division south of the Warta to vic Turek-Uniejow. They were getting pounded and retrograde northwest was ordered. However the Alleycats got spread out far and thin, and cut off SOUTH of the river, then lost communications with higher.

Alas the game came to an end when half the players (RL military) got deployed.

Grae.

[Marc]

I think that your approach to the III Army offensive makes sense. By the way, I like the idea of a group of characters members of an HQ section.

[Fusilier]

Yeah, if I had started this thread before I probably would have made some changes too. I don't think the 5th actions were originally well thought out by the authors and never really liked the Op Reset myself... (nor do I think the original reason for the 5th to be so far south was due to reset... I think they just came up with that later).

One more question. Going home lists the III Corps back in Germany. So at what date do you figure they crossed back over the border Did they fight it out hoping to keep some ground or just pack up and leave for Germany

[Targan]

The 5th was sacrificed as a smokescreen to cover the Reset mission in Lodz.

I see it that way too although I doubt even the highest command echelons of the 5th realised that was the way things were going to go down. I think Colonel Stark had a big hand in that decision (well that is the way I played it in my current campaign anyway).

[Marc]

The 5th was sacrificed as a smokescreen to cover the Reset mission in Lodz.

I do not interpret that the paper of the 5th ID as a screening force for "Operation Reset" was premeditated, though in "The Free City of Krakow" it is mentioned that the Special Forces B Team was "masked by the fury of the 5th Division's attack" .

Anyway, not being very comfortable with the Reset device concept, I prefer the kind of explanation proposed by Graebarde. And happily I'm still in time to apply some changes to my campaign setup .

[Legbreaker]

2000 Spring Offensive by the 3rd German Army

This is an assessment of the German 3rd Army spring offensive, why it was undertaken and how it was that the sudden appearance of the Soviet 4th Guards Army at Lodz was so absolutely disastrous not only to the US 5th ID but to the offensive as a whole.

The 3rd Army, consisting of the German III Corp (6th PGD, 21st PGD, 29th PD, Jutland (Danish) Mechanised Division) and XI US Corp (5th ID, 8th ID, 50th AD, 2nd MARDIV, 4th Canadian Mechanised Brigade and the 116th ACR) were to sweep the Baltic coastline clear of Pact forces. Numbering approximately 30,000 troops and over 185 tanks it was a force more than capable of achieving it's goals, especially when it is considered that no major operations had been conducted in about a year (time in which fuel, food and ammunition was being stockpiled).

At the commencement of the offensive, Pact forces in the area consisted of little more than the remnants of almost all Poland's military forces (predominately cavalry with mostly 40+ year old tanks). Total Polish strength was barely 20,000 men and 28 tanks. Between them and Czechoslovakia was the might of the Soviet Army - virtually impregnable for the forces of NATO in 2000.

Holding the right flank of the starting position of the offensive was the British army (region of Berlin and Frankfurt). Facing them across well prepared positions was the northern end of the Soviet line. It would have been the British responsibility to hold these Soviet positions with those units already in contact while swinging their reserves up and around behind the 3rd Army to cover their rear. Due to the appearance of the Soviet 4th Guards Army approximately 700km to the east, these units never moved.

The plan was simple enough in concept and should have been almost simpler in execution. XI US Corp was to lead, perhaps due to the usual American desire to be predominant, maybe because they had been resting longer, or perhaps it was as simple as them being in the best position to begin with. For whatever reason, the US 5th ID found itself the spearhead, tasked with making the initial breakthrough and then bearing south in an attempt to outflank and cut supply lines to Soviet forces close to the German border (the same ones facing the British).

Meanwhile amphibious landings were to be made by the 2nd MARDIV across the river estuaries of northern Poland with the 8th ID heading further east to cut lines of any hope of reinforcement from Russia. The 50th Armoured Division was to fill the gap between the 5th and 8th while 116th ACR and Can 4th Mech Bde were held in reserve.

The remainder of the 3rd Army were tasked with filling the gap between the 5th ID and the British forces. They, like the British, had barely reached the start line recently vacated by the US units before the Soviet 4th Guards Army screwed everything up.

The Polish units directly in the path of the juggernaut US XI Corps, simply melted away in the face of far superior technical and numeric forces rather than submitting to the certainty of defeat and destruction. Heading north in good order they entered the area between Gdansk and Slupsk to begin harassing the northern flank of the offensive. Although cut of from the rest of the Pact forces, their supply needs were minimal due to low numbers and high reliance on horses. Food was also plentiful with rich fishing grounds to three sides. With the Polish withdrawal north, XI Corps were forced to commit the 50th AD to hold them in check until the Canadians and 116th ACR could be brought up to assist with eliminating them.

The Canadians and bulk of 116th ACR however had been called upon to assist the British to hold an increasingly restless Soviet Army. The Germans were due to relieve the Canadians and 116th in place within a week, freeing them to join the 50th AD, crush the under equipped Poles and catch up with the remainder of the XI Corp.

The US 2nd MARDIV commenced it's move by sea to assault the area from the ruins of Gdansk to Elblag escorted by the only US Destroyer still afloat in within five thousand miles, the USS John Hancock. Although the move was successful, valuable equipment was lost when a supporting vessel struck a sea mine and sunk taking nearly 30% of the divisions stores with it. Fortunately almost all the divisions personnel and armour made it to shore, but within a week were running short on fuel. Ammunition expenditure had been minimal due to the absence of any enemy opposition beyond local militias, while food was plentiful in the mainly agricultural floodplains.

Faced with the growing fuel shortage and lack of significant enemy units within the area to raid for more, the divisional commander chose to move westward with the aim of linking up with the 50th AD and lending what support he could against the trapped Poles.

By the middle of July the situation had changed dramatically for the worse. The US 5th ID was about to face annihilation, the 8th had moved far beyond it's originally intended area chasing fleeing rear area Pact units, the 50th was stalled, holding the Polish forces in place and waiting for the Canadians and 116th ACR to arrive, and the 2nd Marines were virtually immobile but slowly crawling westward. There was nobody who could rescue the beleaguered 5th ID and the last reported position of the 8th was, amazingly, somewhere in western Russia.

As the sudden appearance of the Soviet 4th Guards Army had stirred up the entire European front with pressure being brought to bear everywhere, the 3rd Army commander had no choice but to cut his losses and attempt to consolidate what few gains had been made. The German III Corp was given orders to move into positions supporting British and other German units, but before this order could be carried out, the remaining Polish units not trapped by the US 50th AD or in contact with the remnants of the US 5th ID, began exerting northward pressure around the eastern flank of the Canadians and 116th ACR. Soviet units held in reserve moved northward directly against the Canadians forcing them back towards the coast.

What had initially been conceived as a deep penetration into central Poland via the Baltic coast, followed by right swing to cut off Pact forces had suddenly turned into a gigantic trap for the Americans and Canadians as Pact divisions forced their way towards Szczecin. With the German units already on the road elsewhere the race was on between the Americans and Soviets – if the Soviets reached the coastline first, the entire XI Corps would be cut off.

The 2nd MARDIV made contact with the right (east) flank of the 50th AD just in time. Fuel reserves were transferred and suddenly the marines were mobile once more. The bulk of the 50th ADs fighting force was hurriedly redeployed southward to screen the 2nd Marines move from the much more dangerous Soviets (the marines taking over responsibility for holding the Poles back).

Meanwhile the Canadians and 116th ACR fell back under increasing pressure from combined Soviet and Polish forces, towards the Corp HQ at Karlino, unable to do more than slow the oncoming mass of troops and tanks.

Aftermath
The XI Corp is cut off from friendly forces not so much by the Soviets as by the terrain – the Oder river and numerous interconnected lakes form a water barrier from Szczecin to the Baltic. The Corp is still in contact by sea with Germany, but any move to rejoin allied forces would require an offensive against Pact divisions to the south and east of the irradiated ruins of Szczecin. Some supply is possible by available shipping, but there is not enough capacity remaining after the spring debacle to withdraw even a small part of the Corp. Port facilities are likewise limited with most supplies having to be brought directly onto the beaches by small boat.

[Graebarde]

Good analysis Legbreaker.