KFS Refit

[ArmySGT.]

So in 4th Edition the Morrow Project gets an equipment refit to go with the later start date of the War.

To that end, I feel the KFS should get the same treatment.

New tech for the Rich Five, their minions The 2000, then the secret police and armies of this police state.

From "Bullets & Bluegrass" we know the KFS fields the Thunderbolt fighter bomber, V-300 (and variants), M1 Abrams, M2 Bradleys (both minus fancy electronics or munitions), M102 howitzers for large caliber systems. The troops have Mini 14s for rifles, the CETME SAW, S&W M59 pistol. M2HBs and rifle grenades add punch and supporting fire power. The use M35 (2 1/2ton) trucks and M151 jeeps regularly plus extensive use of horse patrols. They can communicate via radio from the platoon level upward.

What is your take on making the KFS a credible threat to MP personnel except to the fact that there is hundreds of them, and loyal to the Rich Five too

[Gelrir]

All that stuff sounds mighty credible still, unless the Morrow Project has turned a lot more heavily-armed in the 4th Edition.

The V300 always struck me as a "let's use this, since we have stats on the V150 already" solution. For a "let's stash an army in the early 21st Century" scenario, MRAP vehicles and HMMWV variants would probably be more "in-period" than V300s and M151 "mutts".

The production of M1 tanks, but with different armor, weapons, systems, engine and drive train always struck me as another "let's use an existing published description" problem. It's just "shaped" like an M1 tank at that point. In my opinion, an KFS tank would be the engine, transmission, drivetrain, tracks and suspension of whatever industrial tracked vehicle they use/produce, and simple armored hull and turret, mounting a main gun in a caliber that matches one of their artillery rounds. Building a fake 20th Century main battle tank for a century after they're needed seems a bit odd.

Of course, there might be some political, ceremonial need to make a tank that "looks" like an M1.

The KFS army is described in Bullets and Bluegrass as having seven 1300-man regiments, plus the air force, secret police, etc.. There've been long discussions about the "correct" size of the KFS military, how much manufacturing capacity they would have, etc. The Bullets and Bluegrass book suggests that the KFS is the only source for percussion primers in their trading zone.

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Michael B.

[ArmySGT.]

If the Iowa tank plant and the Anniston Depot are under KFS control, the M1 makes sense as does the M2.

I figure the KFS and most anyone doing any fighting does so in the 18th to mid 19th century style. From the time after crops are planted up until crops need to be harvested. Agriculture being rather labor intensive. I would not doubt that any KFS units supplement their rations (in the corrupt KFS) by growing their own. KFS units might even place a premium on capturing pre-war farming equipment and healthy livestock.

Back to weapons. I think you're right on just using stock 1980's equipment without writing stats for something new. The M35 stats and the M151 stats are in "Liberation at Riverton".

I think that the KFS should be fielding M16s and M4s unless, those are worn out. If they are taking over M1 tanks, M2 IFVs, and M102 howitzers from former army and marine units then why don't they have the small arms too

So yeah, KFS should have M16A2s. I think it was writers bias. Someone on staff really hates the M16. No reason that the Rich Five can't have the resources and machinery to produce more. If you can make a fusion plant, what is an M16

I would have expected simpler vehicles even some WW2 and WW1 models, not even American ones at that. Those would be cheaper to make, cheaper to operate, simpler to repair, and easier to operate. The easier to operate would be a factor when you are intentionally limiting education to keep the masses controllable. To the point of fielding things like the Hetzer.

[ArmySGT.]

The Thunderbolt is a pretty good airplane, especially for what the KFS uses it for. I think there is a strong argument for spotter aircraft like the piper cub and a transport like the DC-3 too. In that vein, rotary wing aircraft too. The KFS has a lot of territory and the pilots of the Thunderbolts are politically connected. I don't see why there isn't a helo standing by in case one of the T-birds gets shot down.

Then the argument for more luxurious or capable aircraft for moving family members of the Rich Five or executives of the 2000 around KFS territory.

[Project_Sardonicus]

I think the M1 and Bradley seem unlikely, they're the product of a wealthy modern state with near limitless resources.
Where as in the dark future they're 30 and 70 tonnes of heavy metal taking lots of resources too build, gallons of petrol to move.
Like WW2 Tiger tanks they'd be sitting broken down or out fuel by the side of the road.

I'd think they'd be more likely to go along the route of Allied armour units.

Small fast, long range tanks like Shermans or T34s and a few heavily armed tank destroyers for heavier opponents.

It's probably easier to retool the factories that to carry on.

I think the M16 makes more sense, but how popular is a weapon that chews about hundreds of bullets in a sustained firefight. When industrial production is lessened and there isn't a resupply helicopter in the hanger. Perhaps a semi auto version with a smaller magazine.

[Gelrir]

The KFS is described as "not having had a war in a century"; I don't think they would feel the need for tank destroyers (for example) or even, perhaps, tanks.

An armored car should be more than enough to deal with the cap-and-ball musket neighbors; the Air Force can put the fear of death into Truckers and other visiting "trouble".

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Michael B.

[Gelrir]

Some of the MRAP vehicles use the 5 or 10 ton "army truck" powertrain, wheels, and automotive systems. I would suspect the KFS might find the same plan to be attractive: pick some heavy truck in production within the KFS, and build an armored body to plonk down on the chassis. Sprinkle with machine guns to taste.

Armor thick enough to stop a .50 cal AP round is probably "tank" level armor in the 22nd Century, in any case (outside of Texas and northern Mexico).

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Michael B.

[kato13]

I agree with most of what has been said, but I can see the KFS keeping a few Heavy vehicles ready to counter any Morrow Teams still out there.

Morrow Teams (and anyone they train in insurgency) will have many options for dealing with armored trucks, but far fewer to deal with Sherman/M48 level tanks.

[Gelrir]

It's not too clear from Bullets and Bluegrass how long the KFS has been grabbing MP teams and gear ... long enough to have copied fusion reactors, resistweave, and V150s (in the form of V300 armored cars). And of course they probably have known about the Project since before the Atomic War.

In the end, it's a call for the referee/PD to make.

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Michael B.

[RandyT0001]

There will have to be some sort of adjustment for the 2017 setting because the armor school moved from Fort Knox to Fort Benning in 2010. The M1 tanks and Bradleys that the KFS copied for use against the MP have moved to Georgia.

[ArmySGT.]

It's not too clear from Bullets and Bluegrass how long the KFS has been grabbing MP teams and gear ... long enough to have copied fusion reactors, resistweave, and V150s (in the form of V300 armored cars). And of course they probably have known about the Project since before the Atomic War.

In the end, it's a call for the referee/PD to make.

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Michael B.

The KFS is founded by the Rich Five....... They are five families of industrialists that were part of the Council of Tomorrow.

They didn't steal those things and copy them. They were frozen in their own cryosleep capsules with that stuff and the "2000". Families (minions) loyal to the Rich Five.

[ArmySGT.]

There will have to be some sort of adjustment for the 2017 setting because the armor school moved from Fort Knox to Fort Benning in 2010. The M1 tanks and Bradleys that the KFS copied for use against the MP have moved to Georgia.

There is plenty at Ft. Campbell and local National Guard units.

[ArmySGT.]

KFS river monitors Like the converted LCMs in Viet Nam....

[RandyT0001]

The KFS does seem to rely on rivers and mountains for borders. The Tennessee and Ohio Rivers provide a substantial obstacle for any potential invader. The KFS probably monitors and maintains the few bridges and provides the ferries that cross both rivers. I think that the few monitors the KFS has on the rivers are going to be powered by steam. Steam power is sufficient for river travel, is easy to maintain at a lower technology level, and if it falls into 'enemy' hands it is not a technology that would provide said 'enemy' an advantage. Of course, having any significant river transport would require clearing the channel of snags and erecting some wing dams or dikes to coax the flow to a preferred, deeper water channel.

[Project_Sardonicus]

Some of the MRAP vehicles use the 5 or 10 ton "army truck" powertrain, wheels, and automotive systems. I would suspect the KFS might find the same plan to be attractive: pick some heavy truck in production within the KFS, and build an armored body to plonk down on the chassis. Sprinkle with machine guns to taste.

Armor thick enough to stop a .50 cal AP round is probably "tank" level armor in the 22nd Century, in any case (outside of Texas and northern Mexico).

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Michael B.

Wasn't both the M113 and the V100 powered by the same basic engine as a school bus. So it wouldn't be implausible for KFS to bascially reskin the same basic vehicle.