MP Airforce

[helbent4]

I choses the Mustang due to is size, beacuse your going to have take it apart to have fit underground for storage, the mustang will just fit a 40 Ft Seacan, I also though the MP would'nt want to attractive attention by building a some what modern frontline combat aircraft.

RCAF,

I think MP aircraft (rotor and pro-driven) can be fitted with fusion-electric motors, even jet propulsion (via MHD turbine). Because this gets into "HAAM expensive" territory I don't see MP aircraft aircraft as being common but there could be some useful ones stashed here and there, say, a dozen or so.

As far as technical notes go a Mustang with a fusion-electric power plant would be less vulnerable but there are probably platforms that give you a much better bang for your buck. Further, like the Bronco the Spad/Skyraider can have passenger seats (12) installed in the rear fuselage or be used as an air ambulance. If you're looking for ground attack aircraft that isn't used by the US or a front-line aircraft, other contenders might be a licenced version of the FMA IA 58 Pucar! for "foreign military sales".

The Bronco was technically a front-line aircraft in the canon timeline, although it was being replaced by OV-37s and Warthogs in the 80's. Assuming the Project expects to be activated some time in the 90's or later, the Bronco is no longer going to be a front line platform. The Skyraider much less so, of course.

It's important to remember that almost no Project equipment or weapons need be former military surplus or relics, and government intervention need rarely be an issue, if at all. Military weapons and vehicles are built by private companies all the time, in fact, they pretty much all are. (That is, via "defense contractors".)

"Morrow Aerospace" (a hypothetical wholly-owned subsidiary of Morrow Industries) could build armed Broncos under licence (that is, legally) from North American-Rockwell International (if it isn't already a COT-owned company) for "foreign military sales/export", "technology demonstrators" and/or "prototypes offered for future USAF/USMC military sales". Presuming that Morrow Industries is already a major US defence contractor, as long as the paperwork is in order and the taxes paid the US government wouldn't think twice.

In the real world, Boeing is developing the OV-10X to offer to the USAF and because of growing interest from foreign customers; it's not like they worry about the feds breaking down their doors, guns drawn!

It's unlikely that new Spads/Skyraiders could be built, but they are common enough and some Morrrow/COT company could be contracted to refurbish and update some found in a warehouse for a 3rd-world US ally (Guatamala Colombia Indonesia) as COIN aircraft under some US-funded 80's drug war/communist insurgency program. Of course, the orders eventually "fall through" (due to bribery, corruption, budge cuts, etc.) and Morrow Industries is left holding the bag. The same slight-of-hand could be used to legitimately and legally build Broncos that are diverted for Project use.

Actually operating out of a bolthole or similar small cramped installation would be the least desirable option under almost any circumstances. With STOL aircraft the teams using COIN aircraft would first try and secure aboveground facilities, preferably at an airport or air base and then move the aircraft there in a disassembled or partially assembled state. If that's not possible, STOL aircraft like the Bronco could operate out of any group of buildings big enough to store it, given a suitably straight stretch of pavement. Teams need to get out and see the world more...

Tony

[Old_Bear7729]

May I suggest the following aircraft for possible use by the Project at different times during it's history.

Initial Setup

When the project was being set up in the 1960's it bought surplus military aircraft from the US and other friendly governments which had sold for scrapping these included the following:

• Vought F4U Corsair Fighter Bombers
• Douglas B-26 Invaders
• Douglas C-47 Dakotas
• Sikorsky H-34 Choctaw Heliocopters
• Grumman HU-16 Albatross Amphibians

Main Stage
During the main stage of the project being installed the following aircraft where obtained secretly from companies allied to the Council of Tomorrow. These models were stock models as supplied to the US Armed Forces at the time.

• North American OV-10 Bronco LAARP
• DHC-4 Caribou STOL utility transport
• Lockheed C-141 Starlifters
• Hughes OH-6 LOH
• Sikorsky S-61R Medium Lift Heliocopter
• Sikorsky S-65 Heavy Lift Helicopter

Some of these Aircraft, especially the OV-10 Bronco, were later updated with more advanced avionics and fusion powered engines.

GM's Notes
If you want to have a WWII Fighter in a cache, I would go for the Corsair, it is rugged, reliable, more damage resistant and carries a more heavier warload than a P-51, it also has folding wings, so it is easier to store. Same for the B-26, a most excellent Light Bomber with a good warload and still in service in the 1960's with the USAF and other air forces.
I personally feel that the OV-10 Bronco is the perfect aircraft for the Project, in fact, If I ever get round to running a MP game, in my campaign, the Bronco replaces the Airscout as the Project's primary recon and strike aircraft.

[Gamer]

I hadn't seen this mentioned about the spad yet is it's versatility.
I don't know how well this is known but there is the AD-5 COD -carrier on board delivery- add on kits that could allow it to carry up to 10 people in the back, and one for cargo and yet another kit allowing up to 4 litters.
I don't know if there are pictures of those kits online but I have a few pictures of these kits being demonstrated if there is any interest in seeing them.

These kits would increase the spads value to the MP.
I beleive it would be the aircraft with versatility that would be of more use to them than a regular fighter bomber because they will have to make do with what they have when the time comes.

[Matt W]

Suggested personnel for MP Air Base operating 5 fixed-wing recon/utility/strike aircraft and one Transport/CSAR aircraft

Flight crew

Pilot x 6
Navigator/Observer
Transport Loadmaster
Flight Engineer
Maintenance Crew Chief x 2
Maintenance Specialist X 14
Rescue/Survival Specialist x 2
Paramedic


Base:
Commander
OPerations/Intelligence
Meteorolgist
Logistics/Supply x 2
Information Management
Communications Specialist
Aircrew Life Support Specialist
Flight Surgeon

Security:
Security Team Leader
Deputy leader
Security/Police specialist x 8

Total personnel = 47

[helbent4]

These kits would increase the spads value to the MP.
I beleive it would be the aircraft with versatility that would be of more use to them than a regular fighter bomber because they will have to make do with what they have when the time comes.

Gamer,

This transport capacity of the Spad was brought it up, but not in as much detail.

"The French frequently used the aft station to carry maintenance personnel, spare parts and supplies to forward bases. In Chad they even used the aft station for a "bombardier" and his "special stores" – empty beer bottles – as these were considered as non-lethal weapons, thus not breaking the government-imposed rules of engagement, during operations against Libyan-supported rebels in the late 1960s and early 1970s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-1_Skyraider

I could see a small air team as a national-level asset, or maybe a regional asset (one per). Original issue (60's) would be mainly Skyraiders, to be augmented/replaced during the Project-wide upgrade by the Bronco. Chinooks would be fine for air transport, probably no real need for a gunship or tank-killer helo.

Another suggestion would be a local-built copy of the Mil Mi-8/17. Say, Morrow Industries buys one from Israel they captured from Egypt and reverse-engineers it for the 1987 update. What are the Soviets going to do, even if they find out It's a great platform and be both a transport and attack ship. Still, a little risky flying a helo closely resembling those of an enemy that has nuked your cities! Not to mention being mistaken for being part of the UN occupation army.

Tony

[helbent4]

Suggested personnel for MP Air Base operating 5 fixed-wing recon/utility/strike aircraft and one Transport/CSAR aircraft

Flight crew

Pilot x 6
Navigator/Observer
Transport Loadmaster
Flight Engineer
Maintenance Crew Chief x 2
Maintenance Specialist X 14
Rescue/Survival Specialist x 2
Paramedic


Base:
Commander
OPerations/Intelligence
Meteorolgist
Logistics/Supply x 2
Information Management
Communications Specialist
Aircrew Life Support Specialist
Flight Surgeon

Security:
Security Team Leader
Deputy leader
Security/Police specialist x 8

Total personnel = 47

Matt,

This seems pretty feasible. To expand operations, additional needed could be hired and trained. (Following the cadre model, of course!)

For hybrids the Canadair CL-84 is an interesting tilt-rotor. It seemed like a solid design that could be revived by "Morrow Aerospace" for development for future military and civil sales. Unlike the V-22 Osprey the aircraft can take-off and land with the wings in the forward position, making transition less risky:





Tony

[dragoon500ly]

[QUOTE][*]Vought F4U Corsair Fighter Bombers[*]Douglas B-26 Invaders[*]Douglas C-47 Dakotas[*]Sikorsky H-34 Choctaw Heliocopters[*]Grumman HU-16 Albatross Amphibians
[QUOTE]

I had quite forgotten about the ole F4U...instead of the B-26, go with the A-26 COIN version...just think eight .50s in the nose, six .50s in the wing, four .50s in cheek mounts and two turrets with twin .50s and still able to carry 4,000lbs of bombs....eighteen .50s in a strafing run....hmmmm

[QUOTE][*]North American OV-10 Bronco LAARP[*]DHC-4 Caribou STOL utility transport[*]Lockheed C-141 Starlifters[*]Hughes OH-6 LOH[*]Sikorsky S-61R Medium Lift Heliocopter[*]Sikorsky S-65 Heavy Lift Helicopter
[QUOTE]

I can pretty much agree with this list with one exception, I'd dropped the C-141 and use a C-130 simply because the Herky has a better rough field capability than a 'Lifter does. The argument can be made that with the 5yr time frame, there will be a lot of airfields that can support the 'Lifter, it's just that most of them are near newly irradiated areas. My 2 cents!

[Gamer]

Gamer,

This transport capacity of the Spad was brought it up, but not in as much detail.

My appologies people I guess I didn't catch that when i went through the thread.

instead of the B-26, go with the A-26 COIN version...just think eight .50s in the nose, six .50s in the wing, four .50s in cheek mounts and two turrets with twin .50s and still able to carry 4,000lbs of bombs....eighteen .50s in a strafing run....hmmmm

dragoon500ly,
That's a lot of ammo to be using up for strafing runs, the MP is going to need it's own dedicated ammo factory just for the air force as it is.
If your going to tear up acreage like that you might as well just give MP an AC-47 or AC-119

[Old_Bear7729]

I was actually thinking about a late model B-26C variant, as this was the glassed nose variant rather than either the B-26B or K variants. The reason was that I suggested this aircraft is that it is more versatile than the B version capable of being used for Photo Recon and limited cargo-carrying as well as stike mission.

A late model C version was armed with 2 x 0.5HMG in the nose as well as another three in each wing. Take out the lower turret and use the space to carry extra fuel and a navigation/bombing radar, as well control gear for AGM-12B 250lb Bullpup Missiles.

The reason I suggested the C141 was that it was primary used pre-war to move heavy project equipment around the US and the world. The aircraft could carry a maximum of 42 Tons. For those of you who can remember the TV series UFO, think of the SHADO heavy lift aircraft carrying the SHADO ATV's around the world.

However, I still recomend the OV-10 s the main Project aircraft, it was as though it was designed especially for the Project. Please see the following link for further details:

OV-10 Bronco

[dragoon500ly]

That's a lot of ammo to be using up for strafing runs, the MP is going to need it's own dedicated ammo factory just for the air force as it is. If your going to tear up acreage like that you might as well just give MP an AC-47 or AC-119

Well anything worth doing is worth overdoing!

Seriously, a neighbor was a A-26 pilot during the Korean War and from what he tells me, you could select nose guns, cheek guns or wing guns or go for the whole lot...