Prime Base

[tsofian]

Change the location to western Missouri. The construction of the site uses the cover story of a limestone mine about 500 to 1000 feet deep. The mine closes once the excavation is done. The site remains dormant for a few years. The site is bought by a new company that modifies the mine to be used as a underground storage facility and office space. A small portion is leased out while deeper in the mine the base is outfitted with the equipment, personnel and stores. The storage company files bankruptcy and the leases are evicted. The base is sealed. A "front office" is established to "monitor the mine" (and the war) and the items stored (the base that is in cyro sleep).

Missouri is a central location, close to the geographic center of the lower 48 states and the population center of the US as well.

Now the WoK do not have to travel across the Rockies to get to PB. PB is in a state close to their home area (area 7 (4th) - Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, etc.)

Western Missouri is going to take a hammering because of the ICBM field and also Kansas city. KC is basically the back up capital of the United States it has regional headquarters for nearly every single Federal Agency. There are also a number of critical defenses and nuclear industry contractors in KC. Eastern Missouri is in the same boat. Almost 70% of all east west rail traffic passes through St Louis. Boeing's fighter production facility is there. The Chain of Rocks Canal is critical to Mississippi River barge traffic. Scott AFB is within 45 miles. Unless something really odd happens Missouri will basically cease to exist because it is going to get slammed with a couple of hundred warheads, many of which are going to be surface bursts.

[tsofian]

I am ok with the ranch cover story.

Cattle and sheep doesn't call for a lot workers. Those workers have a place in PB as well. They are the hands on teachers of animal husbandry. Likewise, there is still good reason for trucks, even large semi trailers to come and go. Feed mostly, you have to lay in supplies of hay and grains for cattle and working horses. Manure is shipped out in great loads by semi trailer to fertilizer companies. Cattle are sold in the late fall to meat packing plants and that is another reason for semis coming and going.

The problem with the ranch has always been placement. I cattle ranch on top of the ridge makes even less sense. A lot of water will need to get pumped up for the cows. Cows are not exactly all terrain animals so getting them up and down the steep slopes might cause issues (unless these are the cute highland cows). A Ranch in such a commanding position would make a very good post whoops location. If it is still standing the buildings offer shelter. The windmill pumping water offers that life-giving resource. If the cows are still alive they are a huge resource.

This leads to a question about the cows. When the balloon goes up do they get euthenized Do they get herded into the base (How the Hell do you decon a cow), because if left free to wander about they will attract everyone with a knife and a hibachi.

I'm still liking the paper to mulch conversion plant.

Terry

[cosmicfish]

Why try and solve this with a single installation Create a small town out in the middle of nowhere and give it a small number of businesses and residences, all Project-owned, that combine to explain the needed traffic. Have a regional trucking company or other distribution center. to explain trucks going in and out. Perhaps have some kind of communications company that uses the low-noise region to test different antenna technologies, to explain the antennas.

Then run a tunnel a few miles away to the actual Base, housed in an old mine or some such. You could do all pre-war operations through the tunnel, and open the PB main doors from the inside with hydraulic rams when it is safe to do so.

[tsofian]

Why try and solve this with a single installation Create a small town out in the middle of nowhere and give it a small number of businesses and residences, all Project-owned, that combine to explain the needed traffic. Have a regional trucking company or other distribution center. to explain trucks going in and out. Perhaps have some kind of communications company that uses the low-noise region to test different antenna technologies, to explain the antennas.

Then run a tunnel a few miles away to the actual Base, housed in an old mine or some such. You could do all pre-war operations through the tunnel, and open the PB main doors from the inside with hydraulic rams when it is safe to do so.

There is some really great stuff here! The communications company idea is perfect-although it could be a SETI station which means it will have no staff and no one really expects any results, link it up via the "dead" microwave system discussed earlier and I think that the issue with prewar communications is totally solved. The communications array in the middle of no place offers a great clue to help the players find the base.

The issue with the town is that it still provides shelter and the possibility of supplies and salvage for wandering survivors. I see the long tunnel to Prime from the "peacetime" service entrance. It would be deep, over 150 feet. It zig-zags about a bit before it heads to the base, just to mess with folks trying to figure out which direction to Prime Base.

I figure the tunnel either gets collapsed or flooded with water (or both!)

There is still a guard post at the rump entrance of the tunnel.

[dragoon500ly]

My two cents...so Prime would consist of a central command cylinder, then Life 1, Life 2, Life 3, Medical, Lab and Support. Around the bottom level of these cylinders 2-3 rings of food production and storage tunnels, with a annex of tunnels stretching down the ridge line for manufacturing and storage of supplies. In the opposite direction and running deeper into the ridge, we have the ammo magazines. Sound about right

[dragoon500ly]

It also.sounds like a rewrite of the bottom levels is needed, like a dedicated section for the fusion power plants, emergency batteries, sewage treatment, water pumps/filtration and storage tanks and the air circulation machinery...by the way, anybody give any thought on wear the air intakes and exhausts are.going to be located

[tsofian]

My two cents...so Prime would consist of a central command cylinder, then Life 1, Life 2, Life 3, Medical, Lab and Support. Around the bottom level of these cylinders 2-3 rings of food production and storage tunnels, with a annex of tunnels stretching down the ridge line for manufacturing and storage of supplies. In the opposite direction and running deeper into the ridge, we have the ammo magazines. Sound about right

I think I can live with this!

A train system like this will be needed


Here is a map of an M1 magazine as part of a Maginot Line fort

[tsofian]

It also.sounds like a rewrite of the bottom levels is needed, like a dedicated section for the fusion power plants, emergency batteries, sewage treatment, water pumps/filtration and storage tanks and the air circulation machinery...by the way, anybody give any thought on wear the air intakes and exhausts are.going to be located

Prewar the main entrance is open and air flows in through it. However even them most of the base air is recycled. Once buttoned up the base totally recycles all air and water

[dragoon500ly]

Prewar the main entrance is open and air flows in through it. However even them most of the base air is recycled. Once buttoned up the base totally recycles all air and water

Perhaps, but even prewar, we are still talking about the need to circulate a large amount of air, I just think that there would have to be some means of venting air in and out of Prime. I'm thinking armored vents, concealed along the cliff face.

As for the train, Love It!

[RandyT0001]

Western Missouri is going to take a hammering because of the ICBM field and also Kansas city. KC is basically the back up capital of the United States it has regional headquarters for nearly every single Federal Agency. There are also a number of critical defenses and nuclear industry contractors in KC.

There is no ICBM field in Missouri anymore. It was deactivated in 1995. That means there is about 150 miles of western MO border south of KC unaffected by bombs and about 50-75 miles of western MO border north of KC unaffected by bombs. Plus any location along the Missouri-Iowa border seems suitable as well.

[tsofian]

There is no ICBM field in Missouri anymore. It was deactivated in 1995. That means there is about 150 miles of western MO border south of KC unaffected by bombs and about 50-75 miles of western MO border north of KC unaffected by bombs. Plus any location along the Missouri-Iowa border seems suitable as well.

Sorry, I'm a original end date in 1989 guy, so yes the ICBM field is gone. Whiteman AFB is home of the B-2s so it will still get a pasting.

There is a nuclear powerplant close to the Iowa Missouri border so it will take a nuke and screw up everything downwind Chernobyl Style!

[cosmicfish]

There is some really great stuff here! The communications company idea is perfect-although it could be a SETI station which means it will have no staff and no one really expects any results, link it up via the "dead" microwave system discussed earlier and I think that the issue with prewar communications is totally solved. The communications array in the middle of no place offers a great clue to help the players find the base.

I suggested a research facility because they would have good reason to avoid people while also having a reason to have a variety of antennas - a fake SETI installation would attract alien enthusiasts and conspiracy nuts and would have a hard time explaining why they have all those other antennas that could only communicate with Earth facilities.

The issue with the town is that it still provides shelter and the possibility of supplies and salvage for wandering survivors.

To a certain extent this is unavoidable - anyplace will draw survivors or scavengers eventually. But the town can be just "over the hill" from any highways and after the war PB could do a lot to divert attention from the facility and move stragglers away.

[nuke11]

Isn't there a ranch just south-west of PB Soldier Meadows Ranch and Lodge : http://soldiermeadows.com/. It seems to have been there for at least 100 years. Wouldn't this make a decent place to use as a cover to help the base

[ArmySGT.]

The problem with the ranch has always been placement. I cattle ranch on top of the ridge makes even less sense. A lot of water will need to get pumped up for the cows. Cows are not exactly all terrain animals so getting them up and down the steep slopes might cause issues (unless these are the cute highland cows). A Ranch in such a commanding position would make a very good post whoops location. If it is still standing the buildings offer shelter. The windmill pumping water offers that life-giving resource. If the cows are still alive they are a huge resource.

Cows will surprise you. I worked a summer on a dairy farm. I never want that job again. Milking were 4am and 4pm starts and last about three hours. Then another two sometimes four hours of cleaning to get ready to do it again.

Typically, myself and the other guy didn't have to go get the cows. They would be at the gate waiting for us. Once a month or so, something would spook them and they would be in the hills. We would have to go find them. Out on ATVs in the dark and the cold. Fortunately, some grain would remind them that there was sweet molasses grain in the bin and they would obediently come back down.

If this happened to many times the dairy owner and some others would arrange a dog/coyote hunt.

This leads to a question about the cows. When the balloon goes up do they get euthenized Do they get herded into the base (How the Hell do you decon a cow), because if left free to wander about they will attract everyone with a knife and a hibachi.

I'm still liking the paper to mulch conversion plant.

Terry

I think you just leave them. If ringing the cow bell and the time of day doesn't have them at the barn; just let them go.

I have seen plans on the internet for earth sheltered barns for protecting livestock after a nuclear exchange. Always to small (pens), not enough fodder, and no place to remove the tremendous amount of manure cows produce.

Better to slaughter them, keep a small number of cows for breeding, and use artificial insemination of good stock after the radiation has died down.

This ranch can also be the place that the ag teams are supplied the cryosleep contained livestock too.

[tsofian]

Prime Base demographics

So if Prime Base requires 4000 active staff members (which I think is the upper limit) how many total people and of what age groups would that population contain

So I'm going to make some assumption.
The Project was more willing to take a couple if both members were functional within the Base in preference to a couple in which only one of the members was.

I am going to throw out that 85% of all couples in the base are both staffers and only 15% are couples that consist of one staffer and a "dependent".

The birth rate among couples in Prime Base was 1/8 that of the average (some couples will bring children with them, but I would bet that most would likely hold off until after the war "just in case".

That the rate of married vs single people is 80% of normal. Instead of around 45% this is around 36%. Each couple has an average of .45 children.

So let's see if I can get this math right.

4000 staffer. 36% are married. Since 15% of these marriages include a partner that is a dependent that means 38.7% of 4,000 or 1548 people are in 774 couples and at 1/4 the normal population rate that means 190 children. Now this will still be a bit high for such an environment. In a normal population a large number of these "children" will be grown. Very few parents would go hide underground while their children are above ground in a nuclear holocaust. I suspect that in such cases either the adult children were recruited, adults without adult children were recruited or the demographic was skewed to younger people, ones too young to have adult children.

So what is the total (OK, I know I screwed this word problem up, but I think I am at least close)

4000 staffer

108 married dependents
190 minor dependents (these can be evenly distributed in age from 1-18 years of age)
About 4300 total residents

So I will say
720 Couples apartments
150 Family Apartments

That leaves around 3200 or so people
I would suggest 1/2 are in doubles, 1/4 are in singles and 1/4 are in suites suitable for 4 people
so 800 doubles
400 singles
100 suites

This gives a total of 2170 apartments.

In the Original Module the maximum population was 448 staffers and up to 390 dependents. That is a lot of unproductive mouths to feed, but if that ratio is used 4000 staffers could have up to 3500 dependents.

I will need to draw out the cylinders to see if all these people can be crammed into three cylinders, with all the other stuff that should be in what amounts to a small town