Encounter Group #24 Snake Eaters

[stormlion1]

What I wonder is what kind of equipment were the Snake Eaters buried with, Bolt Holes like the Morrow team, permanent bases they can operate out of. Basements of buildings That is the big question for me.

[Gelrir]

For all we know, 90% of the Snake Eater teams were destroyed in the War, or in the decades before 2139. The ones active in 2139 may just have been lucky enough to get a good, hardened, remote bunker.

• If the government expected a nuclear war, the Snake Eaters would be far from expected targets.
• If investigating or thwarting the Morrow Project is the core, critical purpose of the Snake Eater Project (or whatever actual name it had), then their placement might reflect whatever information the government had about the Project.
• If the government only had one fusion reactor (Damocles), the Snake Eaters might be using plutonium-fueled radioisotope thermoelectric generators. The half-life of plutonium is about 87 years; after two half-lives, the Snake Eaters' cryogenic system may be waking them up due to low remaining power levels.
• If the Morrow Project, backed by Morrow Industries, is seen as threat, part of that threat is a lot of armored cars, filled with people wearing armored coveralls. Anti-vehicle non-metallic land mines, simple anti-tank weapons (to deal with V150s), and armor-piercing small-arms ammunition might be a priority.
• If all the government knows about is the radio system used by the Project: a relatively sophisticated radio setup might be useful for the Snake Eaters. To investigate, and if necessary neutralize the Morrow Project, you first have to find them, after all. While the Snake Eaters can't expect to drive around with a radio truck, they may be equipped with stuff that can be hauled on one or two pack mules. Frozen pack mules Seems a little odd ...

Again, the main reason I commented on this thread was to think of various versions of "what does the government know about the Project" The more you answer that question, the easier the "how many Snake Eaters, where, and with how much stuff" questions get.

Thought derived from the above: if Snake Eaters wake up when their RTGs are down to 20% power reserves, they look outside. No Morrow Project in sight; _but_ the Snake Eaters have (canonically) the radio signals needed to wake up Morrow Project teams (that's how the Snake Eaters expected to wake up at the same time, after all). Maybe the Snake Eaters activate the original few teams in the 2139-era

"Broadcast code one seven alpha seven for a week, it can't hurt to see what turns up."

--
Michael B.

[stormlion1]

Remember the Snake Eaters are expecting to wake up only a few years after they went to sleep so there probably expecting to be able to fall back on surviving US Military support or surviving infrastructure. Things like transport would still be abundant enough that hauling equipment wouldn't be a problem. It might be that all they would have to plan for is to get to a vehicle, replace certain burned out parts and load up and go. Now after 150 years that option is gone so they will have to do things the hard way. Pack up and hump the gear out of the wilderness. They might have more stuff than they can reasonably carry out, or they might have a vehicle stored away to carry gear. I could see stuffing a Jeep or two into a oversized Bolt Hole.

[ArmySGT.]

Remember the Snake Eaters are expecting to wake up only a few years after they went to sleep so there probably expecting to be able to fall back on surviving US Military support or surviving infrastructure. Things like transport would still be abundant enough that hauling equipment wouldn't be a problem. It might be that all they would have to plan for is to get to a vehicle, replace certain burned out parts and load up and go. Now after 150 years that option is gone so they will have to do things the hard way. Pack up and hump the gear out of the wilderness. They might have more stuff than they can reasonably carry out, or they might have a vehicle stored away to carry gear. I could see stuffing a Jeep or two into a oversized Bolt Hole.

I was planning on surplus from WW2 and Korea with M151 jeeps and M3 half tracks. Abundant M1 Garands and M1 Carbines to re-arm and for partisan groups to fight the Soviets. Then rebuilding gear at the village level from SF experiences in South east Asia. Plus abundant medical staff and engineers.

[kato13]

I was planning on surplus from WW2 and Korea with M151 jeeps and M3 half tracks. Abundant M1 Garands and M1 Carbines to re-arm and for partisan groups to fight the Soviets. Then rebuilding gear at the village level from SF experiences in South east Asia. Plus abundant medical staff and engineers.

This is a
Civilian Kit, Developmental Militia I pilfered from somewhere on the web. My plan was for Morrow to use it but the snake eaters could as well. The equipment trends a little later but the weapon are similar (low power so as not to present a danger to the project).

http://games.juhlin.com/generate/kit_gen.htmlfile_type=html_detail&parent_id=1077

[ArmySGT.]

This is a
Civilian Kit, Developmental Militia I pilfered from somewhere on the web. My plan was for Morrow to use it but the snake eaters could as well. The equipment trends a little later but the weapon are similar (low power so as not to present a danger to the project).

http://games.juhlin.com/generate/kit...parent_id=1077

That is a pretty nice kit. I would separate the uniform stuff from the load bearing and life support kit. I will probably add more WW2 and Korea surplus along with some civvie back packing gear. Likely, a soldiers kit, and then a Squad support kit.

Squad kit would have a stove such as the Optimus back packing stove, folding or rollup solar panel, hand pump water filter. One large tarp that can make a cooking or meeting area.

I am going with the M1 carbine, M3 grease gun, M1918 BAR, and M1919A4, with the M1911A1 for sidearm.

The M1 and M3 are for troops, the BAR is issued at one per ten, and the M1919 at one per 40.

[ArmySGT.]

I am trying to line up some Q&A time with Sadler and Tucholka. I have spoken to Tucholka in reference to one of his other games (Fringeworthy). Neither would like to have anything to do with Kevin D. Mr. Sadler is the originator of the story so I hope to have something after 1 january.

[stormlion1]

I was planning on surplus from WW2 and Korea with M151 jeeps and M3 half tracks. Abundant M1 Garands and M1 Carbines to re-arm and for partisan groups to fight the Soviets. Then rebuilding gear at the village level from SF experiences in South east Asia. Plus abundant medical staff and engineers.

M-1 Garand's and Carbines are good, and a plentiful stock of M-14's were still sitting in packing crates during the 80's so they could be stockpiled as well. There would even be plentiful ammunition stockpiled away in armory's that could be gathered up and stored away, much of that has probably sat for decades though. Vehicle wise, Korea and WW-2 vintage is a tad out of date, not with plentiful stocks of Vietnam era equipment floating about. There are even Humvee's in service that could be stored for a later date though they might be missed. I used Jeeps as a option as the 80's was when Jeeps were being phased out of service I think, not sure about that. But there would be plenty of old jeeps that could be stockpiled away for later use, and even spare parts that no one would miss. It really counts where Snake Eaters where being stored in cryo and how much room in comparison they were given in comparison to the Morrow Teams Bolt Holes.
An option is old Salt Mines or even old Government owned Mining Tunnels for storing vehicles and excess equipment with the Snake Eaters in cryo near by. I could even see Huey's being stored with Snake Eaters being qualified to fly them, of course the other issue of fuel then comes up. All good if they wake up five years after the nukes, but after a 150 years fuel will be very hard to get.

[Gelrir]

If you're gonna insist on "out of date" stuff for the Snake Eaters, the M151 "Mutt" was gradually being replaced by the HMMWV the mid-Eighties.

http://www.them151mutt.com/

If the US Government really, really believes there is going to be an atomic war with the Soviet Union within 5 years, 10 years at most ... are they going to make presumably-expensive cryoberths, staffed with some of the nation's best-trained soldiers ... and then allot them some left-over WW2 equipment Especially if "possibly fighting the Morrow Project" is the Snake Eaters' purpose The government has to have noticed the Project has modern armored cars and modern small arms.

--
Michael B

[stormlion1]

Its not that they were being given out of date equipment, its what's reasonable that can be made to disappear in the late 80's into a Snake Eater equipment cache. Jeeps are a dime a dozen, very easy to maintain, rugged, and usable by a specops team in a nuclear environment. The Gov't can make dozens of them disappear without raising suspicions while making a few Hummers go missing will raise eyebrows. The Snake Eaters are going to be armed with the best equipment they have, M-16's, CAR-15's, Colt Pistols, etc, etc but that's minor league stuff that can be written off as destroyed in a exercise. Old and still crated M-1's and M-14's can be written off as sold as surplus or destroyed, Writing off a new Hummer is a bigger issue as would writing off a newer helicopter.
In fact, too much new stuff goes missing could in fact lead to someone noticing and trying to find out where all that gear is going. Its better to use older outdated gear at that point.

Now if your using the new Morrow Project book/PDF, I could see Hummers and Strykers going into caches as well as more modern firepower without raising suspicions. Just write it all off as lost or sold in Afghanistan or Iraq.

[ArmySGT.]

Its not that they were being given out of date equipment, its what's reasonable that can be made to disappear in the late 80's into a Snake Eater equipment cache. Jeeps are a dime a dozen, very easy to maintain, rugged, and usable by a specops team in a nuclear environment. The Gov't can make dozens of them disappear without raising suspicions while making a few Hummers go missing will raise eyebrows. The Snake Eaters are going to be armed with the best equipment they have, M-16's, CAR-15's, Colt Pistols, etc, etc but that's minor league stuff that can be written off as destroyed in a exercise. Old and still crated M-1's and M-14's can be written off as sold as surplus or destroyed, Writing off a new Hummer is a bigger issue as would writing off a newer helicopter.
In fact, too much new stuff goes missing could in fact lead to someone noticing and trying to find out where all that gear is going. Its better to use older outdated gear at that point.

Now if your using the new Morrow Project book/PDF, I could see Hummers and Strykers going into caches as well as more modern firepower without raising suspicions. Just write it all off as lost or sold in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Exactly.

The stuff going in, can't be missed. Therefore, it has to be surplus, purchased off books, confiscated/captured, purchased as one offs (urgent need or test subject), or some future system that advances past prototype but, then shut down.

The stuff discussed so far is what to arm a populace with, to form partisans or resistance groups.

Think about how SF operates....... not in tanks, helicopters, or large armed ships. The blend in, move clandestinely, operate within the local populace. Their missions are intelligence gathering and sabotage.

M151 jeeps with gasoline engines already refit to burn pure ethanol are fine. Civilian vehicles refit in the same manner, delivery vans, pickups, SUVs.....

Their weapons, body armor, medicine, and commo is going to be state of the art at the time they are frozen, or atleast of recent vintage. The Snake eaters of Ft. Morrow (Ruins of Chicago) have M-14s (because the authors didn't like the M-16). The snake eater in Lonestar is the last one from his team and has no gear. The snake eater from Fallback has little equipment but, there are 4-5 more of them.

Only in Ruins of Chicago is it hinted there are more caches for the GBs. However, there isn't anything about them stating size or number only that they lean heavily towards weapons and munitions.

So I intend to keep the GBs lean......... they don't have every nice gadget that could be desired. They do have what they need to jump start a resistance group against Soviet occupation or against rogue U.S. forces becoming warlords.

Now in Canon, the Canadians are part of the Snake eaters program..... So how do you integrate them and how much does Ottawa know about the Morrow Project

[stormlion1]

Rule for equipping the Snake Eaters is the KISS Principle, Equipment that won't be missed, won't show up on the budget, and can go missing quickly and be easily hidden. I doubt that the US Gov't would bury caches like the Morrow Project did but would hide the excess equipment in hidden facility's like abandoned mineshafts, Cold War Bunkers, or beneath Government buildings in rural area's. Whatever isn't stockpiled would be gained when they emerged. Food Enough for the team for six weeks, after that forage, clothes Four pair of Uniforms, after that forage. Only ammunition and weapons would receive a excess needed.

Canada knowing is the tough one for me, just how do you even breach the subject "Hello Mr Prime Minister, Yes, Yes, the wife's fine. I have a favor to ask you, you see where going to be in a nuclear war in six months and I want to borrow a few of your Special Forces for a rainy day."
My money is on the Canadian Commando's were donated for a unknown special mission and not told of what it was until they showed up for the briefing. Those that agreed went into cryo and those who refused were sent home none the wiser to what was going on, just that there buddys would be unavailable for the next several months. These Canadian Troops would be equipped the same as US units and be buried either just on the border or clandestinely within Canada. I could see Canada's intelligence arm being approached as well for some extra support but even that would be tricky as the more people approached the more the likelihood of news getting out.

[ArmySGT.]

They might freeze Green Berets -- or whoever else is on hand -- to re-emerge after the Atomic War; but there would be no reason to synchronize the wake-up to the Morrow Project's signals.

It is an assumption that the DoD knows what the Morrow Project wake up signals are and plans to use those to wake up the Snake Eater teams.

More likely the scientists on the cryosleep program are or have been provided the codes or systems by the Morrow Project.

Then the Project has someone to do the War fighting if there is Soviets on the ground in the 3-5 year plans. This we know from "Final Watch" is safe to assume.

So it isn't the DoD catching the Morrow Project wake up signal; it is the Morrow Project sending the wakeup signal to the Snake Eater teams and MP personnel. The DoD just doesn't know it.

[ArmySGT.]

What I wonder is what kind of equipment were the Snake Eaters buried with, Bolt Holes like the Morrow team, permanent bases they can operate out of. Basements of buildings That is the big question for me.

In the real world A detachments are supported by B detachments, and then C detachments.

A is the operational Team.

B is a support element made of SF graduates who are extremely skilled (Veteran SF) who assist.

C is a largish element back in a controlled are that has non-SF personnel to assist as needed like additional medical personnel, veterinarians, mechanics, electronics repair, etc.

So I would expect A dets to have a bolt hole and a few caches, B dets to have a bolt hole that operates as a base with a secondary as back up. C dets should be near a military installation and might possibly be minimally staffed with an expectation to draw personnel from active duty non program troops.

[stormlion1]

In the real world A detachments are supported by B detachments, and then C detachments.

A is the operational Team.

B is a support element made of SF graduates who are extremely skilled (Veteran SF) who assist.

C is a largish element back in a controlled are that has non-SF personnel to assist as needed like additional medical personnel, veterinarians, mechanics, electronics repair, etc.

So I would expect A dets to have a bolt hole and a few caches, B dets to have a bolt hole that operates as a base with a secondary as back up. C dets should be near a military installation and might possibly be minimally staffed with an expectation to draw personnel from active duty non program troops.

While this is how it should work, the disappearance of so many personnel would cause notice so I'm betting just a A-Team (heh, heh) were put in cryo and were expected to survive on there own. But on that note I'm also betting the bases that the Snake Eaters were given weren't expected to be abandoned like Project Bolt Holes but to act as a temporary base of operations. Operating like a very small fire base as it were in a nuclear environment. It really counts just how much time they were given to prepare but I could see the Gov't adapting Cold War era facilities for this, ones that had been built during the 50's and the 60's then abandoned and forgotten about soon after. In my area there are still remains of Nike Missile Bases scattered about, one of these could be adapted very easily for a Snake Eater base of operation.