Vehicle suggestions

[ArmySGT.]

I don't recall if there is a general vehicles thread. Each has been dedicated to one specific vehicle.

So suggest away... What to add to the game. What to take away / delete. What is your reasoning

I think there is enough drawbacks for the Project to have stopped with the V-150 by the early eighties and adopted a different wheeled APC entirely.

[stormlion1]

Its odd, but my group wanted to use a modified Humvee. And I can see the benefits if allowed to modify the basic body rather than use the standard body. I believe in the end we wanted to heavily modify a armored M997 Maxi-Ambulance with the extra space given to the groups cargo needs and seating and a new gun with hatch mounted on the roof.

I can also see the worth of a Stryker as a transport choice though I would think the weight mat be an issue at times. But it has the benefits of being tough enough to deal with most issues and cargo capacity.

Me, I always figured that putting all the eggs in a single basket was a bad idea and that the option for modified jeeps would be the way to go. Two jeeps per team and if you were waking up five years after a nuclear war they would have the benefit of plenty of spare parts and easy to repair. Using a basically now civilian vehicle has the benefits of blending in more as well.

[cosmicfish]

I don't have the new version yet, just the old version... but I think Science-One was the only vehicle I kept the last time I played. The rest are dated and/or impractical and/or conspicuous compared to what else they could do. The Science-One I kept because, being original it could be presumed to be cutting edge, because there were no other mobile science labs I could find, and because I couldn't think of anything better!

I did reject 3 vehicles before any others - MARS-One, the hovercraft, and the gyrocopter. The first is just a ridiculous combat vehicle, and the other two are inferior to simply having boats, APC's, and helicopters.

I recently started putting together a new Project - as a GM, I want a decent idea of overall structure, scope, and TOE before I start the game. I assumed the War occurred at today + 2 years, near enough to keep things current but far enough to allow for nuclear war to reasonably happen. I tried to pick vehicles that were (a) armored all over (because MP members are NOT disposable!), (b) easy enough to build and/or move within the US, and (c) consistent with what I saw as the needs of the project.

For the most part, I used Strikers as my main Recon and MARS vehicle, with some Bradleys for the tougher MARS crews. I used the Lockheed-Martin JLTV as my "jeep" and the M1074 heavy truck as my primary support vehicle for Specialty teams. The only hovercraft I have on my TOE is the LCAC, because a good deal of my higher structure is devoted to logistical support to the teams.

[nuke11]

I'm leaning more away from military vehicles myself. It is a lot easier to find spare parts for vehicles that are based on commercial designs then military designs.

The Terradyne Gurkha series that is based on the Ford F550 platform. The 3 different models can be modified for MP use, to provide different teams a vehicle on a common platform.

LAPV or RPV - Recon, MARS, etc
MPV - CP, Ambulance, Specialty Team, etc

http://www.terradyneinc.com/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watchv=oJ-Jiz3YVGI&t=87

[cosmicfish]

I'm leaning more away from military vehicles myself. It is a lot easier to find spare parts for vehicles that are based on commercial designs then military designs.

Why would the Project base their supply chain on scavenging The F550 is not the most common vehicle anyway, and by the time the Project was done ripping out parts and replacing them with a fusion reactor and other devices, there really would not be much left that was likely to need replacing!

The Terradyne Gurkha...

The vehicle itself is not unreasonable - my biggest complaints are that as a police vehicle it is relatively poorly armored. The Project was planning on coming in post-war, I would expect to at least occasionally face military weaponry and vehicles, not to mention IED's. I picked something similar to use as an auxiliary, XR311-type vehicle, but I think Recon and MARS teams would need something more rugged.

[ArmySGT.]

Why would the Project base their supply chain on scavenging The F550 is not the most common vehicle anyway, and by the time the Project was done ripping out parts and replacing them with a fusion reactor and other devices, there really would not be much left that was likely to need replacing!

I believe Nuke11 means in general. There would have been more factories, warehouses, and supply parts depots for these civilian components versus trying to find the correct drive train parts for the 5ton truck drive train used on the V150. Commercial diesel motor if you supply some to police or state survivors and a commercial transmission in either case.

The vehicle itself is not unreasonable - my biggest complaints are that as a police vehicle it is relatively poorly armored. The Project was planning on coming in post-war, I would expect to at least occasionally face military weaponry and vehicles, not to mention IED's. I picked something similar to use as an auxiliary, XR311-type vehicle, but I think Recon and MARS teams would need something more rugged.

Meh, the V-150 of 3rd edition is an APC with enough armor to survive hits by 7.62N armor piercing and 155mm HE fragments with detonation at minimum of 50 meters. The same standard for the M113. The Stryker is better surviving hits from 14.5mm due to the reality that this is common on 3rd world technicals.

[ArmySGT.]

I'm leaning more away from military vehicles myself. It is a lot easier to find spare parts for vehicles that are based on commercial designs then military designs.

The Terradyne Gurkha series that is based on the Ford F550 platform. The 3 different models can be modified for MP use, to provide different teams a vehicle on a common platform.

LAPV or RPV - Recon, MARS, etc
MPV - CP, Ambulance, Specialty Team, etc

http://www.terradyneinc.com/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watchv=oJ-Jiz3YVGI&t=87

Excellent, I downloaded the .pdf files includes on their web page...... It is almost like they are war gamers too.

[cosmicfish]

I believe Nuke11 means in general. There would have been more factories, warehouses, and supply parts depots for these civilian components versus trying to find the correct drive train parts for the 5ton truck drive train used on the V150. Commercial diesel motor if you supply some to police or state survivors and a commercial transmission in either case.

Still not seeing why this is a factor. MP vehicles aren't stock, and indeed many of the most important parts couldn't possibly be taken from civilian sources or even military sources, they would have to be stored and/or actively produced by the Project itself. Even if you could use civilian parts, you probably would not want to - that Gurkha probably tears through parts a lot faster than vehicles built from the ground up, but that isn't a big deal because it is not intended for frequent use and exists in a parts-plentiful world!

As another side note, the F550 is only actually produced in a few places, and I worked for a network of Ford dealers at one point - those parts are not commonly available. They are actually kept in a relative handful of places, and the relative ease of getting them currently is a factor of our high-functioning transport network. Depending on that system is less realistic than having your own stored parts and manufacturing capability.

Meh, the V-150 of 3rd edition is an APC with enough armor to survive hits by 7.62N armor piercing and 155mm HE fragments with detonation at minimum of 50 meters. The same standard for the M113. The Stryker is better surviving hits from 14.5mm due to the reality that this is common on 3rd world technicals.

The combat domain of the last 20 years is a big part of the reason I went with the Stryker when constructing a new campaign - vehicles impervious only to 7.62 are going to be frequently vulnerable to hostiles who can raid the local Gander Mountain for .50cal rifles and who can line the road with IED's.

[ArmySGT.]

Still not seeing why this is a factor. MP vehicles aren't stock, and indeed many of the most important parts couldn't possibly be taken from civilian sources or even military sources, they would have to be stored and/or actively produced by the Project itself. Even if you could use civilian parts, you probably would not want to - that Gurkha probably tears through parts a lot faster than vehicles built from the ground up, but that isn't a big deal because it is not intended for frequent use and exists in a parts-plentiful world!

Which as you point out with Ford truck parts makes them even more uncommon........ I am just going to stop at Napa for a M1114 uparmored humvee transmission........

Ok, just as has been rationalized in some other parts..... Before there was a Morrow Project, there was a Morrow Industries. The material that equips the Project is manufactured or procured for the Project is done through real and shell corporations of Morrow Industries.

That rationale right there takes the limitations of really anything you want for your version of the Morrow Project.

So, it is entirely reasonable there is a F550 supply chain for these that a Project Team can get parts from a heavy diesel shop.

As another side note, the F550 is only actually produced in a few places, and I worked for a network of Ford dealers at one point - those parts are not commonly available. They are actually kept in a relative handful of places, and the relative ease of getting them currently is a factor of our high-functioning transport network. Depending on that system is less realistic than having your own stored parts and manufacturing capability.

Which is exactly the same as equipping your Project with Strykers or Humvees........... Even less parts availability because I am not getting vision blocks, new hatch hardware, or the wiring harness equipment at the Flying J truck stop either.

So the rationale against the F550 makes the case even more so against Project owned military vehicles.

The combat domain of the last 20 years is a big part of the reason I went with the Stryker when constructing a new campaign - vehicles impervious only to 7.62 are going to be frequently vulnerable to hostiles who can raid the local Gander Mountain for .50cal rifles and who can line the road with IED's.

I don't give my players these things because it is already damned hard enough to get them out of the V-150 to interact with the NPCs.

I have resorted to killing the V-150 in a game just to get them out of the can.

[ArmySGT.]

Nuke11,

Are you going to put those .pdfs up on your website

I am entertaining the thought of making 3rd edition stats......

4th edition stats are funky and I have to work that out for myself yet.

[cosmicfish]

Which as you point out with Ford truck parts makes them even more uncommon........ I am just going to stop at Napa for a M1114 uparmored humvee transmission........

That isn't really my point at all - my point is that the post-apocalyptic landscape is effectively an unknown territory, and like any unknown territory you need to bring anything you need with you. The relative scarcity of M1114 parts is irrelevant if finding them is a happy coincidence but not at all necessary. The most important factor should be the ability of the part or vehicle to perform the job, the supply chain is then built to support it.

Besides, those parts are also part of what you are going to use to rebuild society, and parts that they themselves may well have already scavenged. If there are F550 parts around, I would want and expect to see them used in non-Project vehicles by non-Project personnel!

EDIT: I would also note that the F550 was not designed for a post-apocalyptic, supply-scarce environment. The whole vehicle is designed to maximize profit, not ensure peak performance with minimal repair! If I was given the job of building something for the Project, I can't imagine that I am going to find many commercially-produced parts that would be useful. It's kind of like designing things for NASA - even the simplest things become custom and expensive because of the demands placed on them.

Ok, just as has been rationalized in some other parts..... Before there was a Morrow Project, there was a Morrow Industries. The material that equips the Project is manufactured or procured for the Project is done through real and shell corporations of Morrow Industries.

Exactly. And that should include not only a good supply of repair parts but also facilities for producing more.

So, it is entirely reasonable there is a F550 supply chain for these that a Project Team can get parts from a heavy diesel shop.

I just think that if F550 parts are being used by the Project, the rationale would not have to do with ability to find parts, post-Apocalypse, from non-Morrow sources.

I don't give my players these things because it is already damned hard enough to get them out of the V-150 to interact with the NPCs.

I have resorted to killing the V-150 in a game just to get them out of the can.

A valid point, but there are lots of ways to handle this. And in the end, TMP is one of those games where players are naturally and reasonably going to want to spend a lot of time in their vehicles. Getting them out for non-combat should be a non-issue, and getting them out for combat isn't that hard.

[nuke11]

Why would the Project base their supply chain on scavenging The F550 is not the most common vehicle anyway, and by the time the Project was done ripping out parts and replacing them with a fusion reactor and other devices, there really would not be much left that was likely to need replacing!


The vehicle itself is not unreasonable - my biggest complaints are that as a police vehicle it is relatively poorly armored. The Project was planning on coming in post-war, I would expect to at least occasionally face military weaponry and vehicles, not to mention IED's. I picked something similar to use as an auxiliary, XR311-type vehicle, but I think Recon and MARS teams would need something more rugged.

What is your idea for a fusion conversion Remove all of the running gear from the vehicle and substitute electric motors at the wheels

[nuke11]

Nuke11,

Are you going to put those .pdfs up on your website

I am entertaining the thought of making 3rd edition stats......

4th edition stats are funky and I have to work that out for myself yet.

Not directly, I'm going to do up the stats for 3rd/4th editions and then post them, but this won't happen for awhile thou.

[cosmicfish]

What is your idea for a fusion conversion Remove all of the running gear from the vehicle and substitute electric motors at the wheels

Not at the wheels, for a variety of reasons. But your entire drivetrain goes right out the window, to be replaced by the reactor and a big electric motor (or two, if you prefer). Hard to replace the axles but replacing the transaxle makes a lot of sense and is pretty easy with two drive motors. Don't even need a transmission!! Your suspension remains the same, as well as a few auxiliary parts, but the inside of an electric vehicle does not share many parts with the inside of a comparable fossil fuel vehicle. And by "does not" I mean "can not" - the systems are not compatible without massive inefficiencies.

[ArmySGT.]

That isn't really my point at all - my point is that the post-apocalyptic landscape is effectively an unknown territory, and like any unknown territory you need to bring anything you need with you. The relative scarcity of M1114 parts is irrelevant if finding them is a happy coincidence but not at all necessary. The most important factor should be the ability of the part or vehicle to perform the job, the supply chain is then built to support it.

No one is saying that this is the case It is just helpful that the same parts used on dumptrucks, moving vans, car haulers, tow trucks, beverage delivery trucks, and so; can be found at any heavy diesel truck dealership. What is your Team going to do Wait for someone to journey to the regional base or unmanned delta base that may be a 1000 miles away Then bring it back along with the tools and equipment to repair it Have you noticed a maintenance and support job skillset in 3rd edition somewhere that I have missed Yes, the Morrow Project is going to stock parts and even manufacture parts because the factories in the major cities were nuked and/or there are no longer power plants or a power grid to run them. Doesnt make sense to totally ignore thousands of diesel mechanics; and hundreds of repair shops in small towns that do not attract the attention of soviet ICBM targeting when planning your post-apocalyptic recovery operations with a 3-5 year startup. Granted the casualtie will be high among those civilians, that equipment though is going to be sitting there useless without a power grid. Hundreds of these can be MI front companies for MP repair and recovery operations Especially ones that can assist in getting civilian assets like garbage trucks, fire trucks, tow trucks, delivery trucks, and such running.. F550s are common as hell.

Besides, those parts are also part of what you are going to use to rebuild society, and parts that they themselves may well have already scavenged. If there are F550 parts around, I would want and expect to see them used in non-Project vehicles by non-Project personnel!

I dont think that the Project was planning on scavenging to keep its own fleet operational. From a civilian fleet managers persceptive, it makes a great deal of sense to use what is already being manufactured, with known quantities and properties, when planning and purchasing your own fleet. From a costs perspective this makes complete sense and the MP is a bunch of altruistic nerdy idealists.

Exactly. And that should include not only a good supply of repair parts but also facilities for producing more.

No one says there isnt. It is a long walk back to the regional base or to get to a delta base just for spare parts. Wouldnt it be better if you could trade with a local heavy diesel mechanic for the labor and parts just for his/her expertise; and because that person has the shop and tools Makes for good role play too.

I just think that if F550 parts are being used by the Project, the rationale would not have to do with ability to find parts, post-Apocalypse, from non-Morrow sources.

And how did this become mutually exclusive By that rationale, the Project should be using U.S. military equipment that would better used restoring order and lawful government authority.

A valid point, but there are lots of ways to handle this. And in the end, TMP is one of those games where players are naturally and reasonably going to want to spend a lot of time in their vehicles.
Getting them out for non-combat should be a non-issue, and getting them out for combat isn't that hard.

Heh, I had to destroy the V-150 to get the role playing going. I literally could not get the PCs to leave the machine.. They would find some way to drive there with weapons out the firing ports or would not go. They drove away from most encounters.. It was pure frustration from the GM stand point.