Contact pack

[stormlion1]

I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.

[ArmySGT.]

I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.

Human Intelligence is best intelligence. You could do it pre-War.... Have a specialist minus long arms attempt infiltration of something like an art commune or logging camp.

[RandyT0001]

I kind of wonder if the Project actually would set up training scenario's using a fake town and civilians and send in teams to train in contact scenario's and defensive ones. Possible even combat scenario's. Easier in earlier editions of course as satellite surveillance and all the tracking that happens in todays world wouldn't exist. Or would everything be classroom and hope for the best.

Read p22 through p23 of 4th edition. Start in right column p22 at "The Basic Course takes three months." until middle of left column p23 ending with "Once the team has reached this phase,...."

[Craig67]

Don't you feel that the pack is missing items that would make it a convincing disguise

Keep in mind it was intended for 5 years after the war. For that time frame and for a short term disguise its ok, not great but ok. It sure is better than nothing.

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.

[stormlion1]

Keep in mind it was intended for 5 years after the war. For that time frame and for a short term disguise its ok, not great but ok. It sure is better than nothing.

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.

Precisely! Most wanderers or travelers would never have any military gear but only civvie stuff and well worn stuff at that. Every sleep in a civvie tent for more than two weeks They get torn up unless your careful.

[cosmicfish]

Whether they have civilian gear or military is irrelevant - there will certainly be surplus military gear around, so a given traveler could easily have either. If it exists as an item of non-Morrow equipment, there is a plausible reason why a given traveler could have it or not have it.

The biggest problem for the contact person is not their gear, it is (at least the first time around) coming up with a reason why they are travelling in the first place, and explaining their inexplicable lack of knowledge about certain subjects. Remember, the contact person is not an emissary to some newly discovered aboriginal tribe, they are a distant cousin of that very same tribe, expected to share a certain degree of communal knowledge and experience.

[cosmicfish]

Sure its missing stuff, but a wanderer or traveller 5 years after WWIII would not have a complete kit, just what s/he could scrounge.

Any traveler would either have a complete kit, be trying to settle down and avoid further travel, or be working to complete that kit. Post-apocalyptic travel is too slow, onerous, and dangerous for anyone to willingly try it without adequate gear.

[ArmySGT.]

Military or Civilian wouldn't bother anyone..... 95% of the people on the planet died. National Guard armories would be looted (no ammunition in State armories). Any soldiers, guardsmen, or reservists homes would turn up anything issued currently and surplus from the past.

What I think screams "FAKE!" is that the kit has nothing to cook with or eat with. There isn't even a can opener for the canned goods. There isn't anything to sleep under like a wool blanket. If you can't live out of the kit, then you look like your weren't meant to; this means spy.

Any survivors community would be suspicious just on account of raiders and thieves.

[kato13]

I think the pack should have well used equipment but have lots of options. It could have 300 items, but the specialist might only carry 20 of them if that is what the situation calls for.

I can see the specialist posing as

• A refugee
• A victim of local banditry
• A wandering tradesman
• A "bard"
• A messenger
• A beggar
• A person looking for lost loved ones
• A merchant (this makes more sense if the party has a horse)

Heck if they have good acting skills they might even portray a simpleton.

I always try to remember that the project expected contact to be five years after and had literally no idea what they would find, so I like flexibility.

Even though we had a 95% death rate there could still be a town with 10,000 people. That requires a different interaction plan than if you are dealing with the standard two street town as seen in so many westerns, where everyone knows everyone and a new face would draw much attention.

[stormlion1]

Me and some friends were talking about prepping and it was noted that walled towns would become a thing again. So fences and wrecked cars and the like would quickly go up around towns and such. With visitors being screened as they came in or allowed only outside a town in a designated trade area.

[kato13]

I agree that borders would be as solid as people could make them for a central secure area, but people could not stay in those areas all the time. They simply could not create borders large enough to enclose an area that would feed them. In many situations you end up with a mid-evil castle or western territory fort type situation IMO.

That was always my problem with the Road Warrior. Where is their food coming from

If areas are producing surplus agriculture you could end up with a highly fortified section like found in the movie. Where those around the area trade food for "Juice", but your first interaction would probably be with someone in the farms surrounding any central secured point.

I should add the caveat that my thoughts are for a group of 5 year survivors. Over 150 years it would be possible to cover a significant border with protection, but then it still would be very difficult to have the manpower to patrol it all.

[stormlion1]

Actually we figured on a redoubt area. A mid sized reinforced area people could fall back to in a emergency and sleep and live in while agriculture remained outside as would merchants and the such. Most raiders are going to look for the easy to get stuff. Food, fuel. There not going to dig lima beans out of the ground or pick apples but go for the already picked stuff and the hoarded supplies.

We considered metal shipping containers filled with engine blocks and rocks and dirt for walls stacked two high for the walls. The bottom full of junk and weight and the top one full of murder holes and sleeping areas for guards.

These stacked across roads and in between buildings with a towns buildings being the bulk of the fortifications. A population could remain safe inside and counterattack and leave when its quiet for commerce and agriculture.

[ArmySGT.]

I look at it that to well equipped the contact person leaves themselves open to harassment. Not everyone will have access to a canteen for instance. In fact that's a pretty rare piece of equipment unless you go out and look for one. Not everyone goes camping or has a army navy store nearby.

I take a nalgene water bottle everywhere, but I have used 1 liter Mt. Dew bottles as canteens because they are disposable.

Might be my location...... Colorado is definitely and outdoor enthusiast state.

You can buy a nalgene bottle at just about any gas station/convenience store here..... These are even routine swag at expo booths.

[stormlion1]

I take a nalgene water bottle everywhere, but I have used 1 liter Mt. Dew bottles as canteens because they are disposable.

Might be my location...... Colorado is definitely and outdoor enthusiast state.

You can buy a nalgene bottle at just about any gas station/convenience store here..... These are even routine swag at expo booths.

Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so. I have friends who have a ton of gear, but none of it is suitable for backpacking or hiking but drive in stuff and there idea of bringing water is a small bottle of Poland Springs. I have a camping trip with some friends set for next week. My gear is packed and ready and fits on my back and except for an axe everything fits inside of the pack.
My friends on the other hand have several hundred pounds of gear, and expect to split it between the three of them in three packs. Quite a bit of it they don't need. I mean one girl has a eight man tent! It weighs thirty pounds and when I asked if she was bringing water I got told she has a few small bottles and would drink from the stream or the pump if she got thirsty. She's not the brightest bulb at the best of times but I expected her to be smarter than that.
People here expect to be able to drive in most of the time and the few walk in sites are usually empty except for one or two campers at a time. The drive in ones are always full.

[ArmySGT.]

Not here on the East Coast or at least South Jersey. People who enjoy the outdoors are a minority and those equipped for it even more so. I have friends who have a ton of gear, but none of it is suitable for backpacking or hiking but drive in stuff and there idea of bringing water is a small bottle of Poland Springs. I have a camping trip with some friends set for next week. My gear is packed and ready and fits on my back and except for an axe everything fits inside of the pack.
My friends on the other hand have several hundred pounds of gear, and expect to split it between the three of them in three packs. Quite a bit of it they don't need. I mean one girl has a eight man tent! It weighs thirty pounds and when I asked if she was bringing water I got told she has a few small bottles and would drink from the stream or the pump if she got thirsty. She's not the brightest bulb at the best of times but I expected her to be smarter than that.
People here expect to be able to drive in most of the time and the few walk in sites are usually empty except for one or two campers at a time. The drive in ones are always full.

Might in fact be regional.... Things can be a long drive here just to go shopping.... Denver Metro, you can have anything or get anything....live out on the Plains or in the Mountains and you can expect to drive hours to get it.

A blizzard here can mean empty shelves in grocery stores for seven to fourteen days on some items. It can also mean getting stuck because roads are closed.

Really, though outdoor activities ranks highly on most peoples reasons for living in Colorado... typically skiing, snowboarding, camping, hiking, and climbing with a lot of runners and cyclists too.