The Soo Locks

[mmartin798]

With the encounter group Lakers and some ideas I have been working on, I need to wonder about the state of the Soo Locks after 150 years. The area is reasonably far from bomb impacts and the actual operation of the locks is pretty basic. The entire area is owned, operated, and maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers. They have their own power from a hydroelectric plant north of the Sabin lock, so assuming they can repair after and EMP, the locks should be able to operate normally for a period if they can continue to get supplies to maintain them. The MacArthur and Poe locks are the most used by commercial traffic.

The main areas I have concerns about are the large metal door and their alignment and the degradation of the concrete that makes the walls and floor of the lock, especially around the openings on the floor that allows the water in and out of the lock. Would the continuing operation of at least one of the operational locks be a high enough of a priority to have concrete produced and continued training of engineers take away from food production The hydroelectric plant does produce about 170 KW of power, so there is that to consider.

[kalos72]

I am not sure specifically how these things are built, but I would think that the concrete or a steel plate fronted gate would erode in 150 years.

Not that it would be that hard to repair, assuming steel and concrete were available.

This topic is of great interest to me on the T2K side as well. Rebuilding the river traffic on the Mississippi River.

[ArmySGT.]

With the encounter group Lakers and some ideas I have been working on, I need to wonder about the state of the Soo Locks after 150 years. The area is reasonably far from bomb impacts and the actual operation of the locks is pretty basic. The entire area is owned, operated, and maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers. They have their own power from a hydroelectric plant north of the Sabin lock, so assuming they can repair after and EMP, the locks should be able to operate normally for a period if they can continue to get supplies to maintain them. The MacArthur and Poe locks are the most used by commercial traffic.

The main areas I have concerns about are the large metal door and their alignment and the degradation of the concrete that makes the walls and floor of the lock, especially around the openings on the floor that allows the water in and out of the lock. Would the continuing operation of at least one of the operational locks be a high enough of a priority to have concrete produced and continued training of engineers take away from food production The hydroelectric plant does produce about 170 KW of power, so there is that to consider.

Comes down to the volume of traffic and the tolls. What does it cost to go through the lock What are they getting in trade for the electricity

[mmartin798]

I am not sure specifically how these things are built, but I would think that the concrete or a steel plate fronted gate would erode in 150 years.

Not that it would be that hard to repair, assuming steel and concrete were available.

This topic is of great interest to me on the T2K side as well. Rebuilding the river traffic on the Mississippi River.

The construction is pretty basic once you break it down. You have a channel that is cut and you put a few feet of concrete on the bottom and vertical walls. You then put another concrete floor with openings in it above the existing floor. Each end of this channel created under the bottom is connected to the water above and below the locks with independently operated valves on each. The ends of each lock has steel or iron doors with wood fenders on the inside that are open and closed hydraulically. For the sake of brevity, I left out the construction details of building and removing a cofferdam, the hinge details, etc.

Being in fresh water and with free electricity, anti-corrosion systems should be able to keep the doors intact indefinitely. Wear on the upper and lower hinge is a bigger problem. Last summer I was in Sault Saint Marie and saw the MacArthur lock completely drained during the 20 days it was closed to repair the lower hinge on the upstream side door. This was to replace one of the original anchorage linkages for the doors, which lasted 72 years. These are routinely maintained in the winter when the locks are closed and dewatered for the winter. The wear on these components should decrease, as I doubt that there will still be around 10,000 ships annually traversing the locks.

The oak fenders are routinely inspected and replaced as needed and can be done while the lock is in operation.

The water and residual silt abrading the bottom of the lock is the area I am most curious about. Since the locks are dewatered during the winter, damage from ice formation is minimized.

[mmartin798]

Comes down to the volume of traffic and the tolls. What does it cost to go through the lock What are they getting in trade for the electricity

I forgot about tolls! I am so used to the locks currently being free to use I forgot that in the late 19th and early 20th century there was a toll of 3-4 cents per ton to use the locks.

[Craig67]

In PF02 Damocles, its clearly stated that the Soo Locks are in ruin and the waters unnavigable.

[mmartin798]

In PF02 Damocles, its clearly stated that the Soo Locks are in ruin and the waters unnavigable.

Yes, but I have a great deal of difficulty with that. Locks are a simple construction. The earliest locks date to around 1000 CE and were completely hand and animal operated. The first Locks at the St Mary's rapids were built on the Canadian side in 1797 and destroyed in the War of 1812. Without the Soo Locks we basically have two "tribes" of Shipmen/Lakers, those in Lake Superior and those in Lake Michigan, Huron and Erie. St Mary's River cannot be navigated by canoes, let alone ships. Without the Locks, there would have to be docks and a great deal of teamster work to move trade goods from the docks of the Superior Shipmen to the docks of the Huron Shipmen.

It may be that the MacArthur and Poe locks are in ruins, but the smaller Davis and Sabin locks might be more easily converted away from iron and electricity to wooden doors and animal or even water power from the rapids to operate the valves and doors. Locks are Tech Level G at their core and too useful for someone not to operate one where the Soo Locks are.

[Craig67]

If I we're on the Soviet nuclear targeting committee, I'd nuke Sault Ste Marie just to shut down all the shipping on Lake Superior.

[mmartin798]

If I we're on the Soviet nuclear targeting committee, I'd nuke Sault Ste Marie just to shut down all the shipping on Lake Superior.

Regardless of Soviet/Chinese nukes, shipping would likely quickly halt on Lake Superior anyway. Communities would likely harvest the HFO in the fuel tanks of the freighters for things like heating during the cold years following the war.

[ArmySGT.]

Ok...... So what is the there to trade and who is that trade going to

The Shipmen need a reason to keep those big ships afloat. It would be far easier to live on land, especially during those winters. Third edition means a small ice age and lower sea levels per Operation Final Watch.

BTW...... that could mean lower water levels for the Great Lakes too........ enough that there is not enough out flow to even use the Soo Locks.

[Craig67]

The trade would be whatever the Shipmen could buy from the local lakeside communities. In Lucifer its noted that Ashland, WI, is now the "port of the north" replacing Duluth (And I'm guessing Thunder Bay but there must be a Canadian port visited by them too).

Furs are mentioned, I would also think there would be goods coming up the Mississippi from the KFS (Via independent traders), so add percussion caps, black powder, cotton and other manufactured goods.

[mmartin798]

With the amount of iron ore, trees and limestone available in the region, I would assume ingots of pig iron would be one thing traded. Depending on the amount of agriculture available, they may be trading food as well again.

[ArmySGT.]

With the amount of iron ore, trees and limestone available in the region, I would assume ingots of pig iron would be one thing traded. Depending on the amount of agriculture available, they may be trading food as well again.

Drag netting fish Maybe one of their ships is a processor Jarred, pickled, salted lake fish

Hauling coal The industry input for one village Classic triangle trade....

Something that could make 4E economy system rules work

[mmartin798]

One thing to remember is that the ships most likely to be used are older and smaller freighters, like this one:

http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/sykes.htm

[ArmySGT.]

One thing to remember is that the ships most likely to be used are older and smaller freighters, like this one:

http://www.boatnerd.com/pictures/fleet/sykes.htm

671 feet long a 70 feet wide is a smaller freighter

I may have to make a trip to the Great Lakes just to look around.