Navies in T2K

[Mohoender]

Canadian Navy

Maritime Forces Atlantic:
- DDH282 "Athabaskan" (Iroquois-class)
- DDH266 "Nipigon" (Annapolis-class)
- DDH229 "Otttawa" (St. Laurent-class)
- DDH230 "Margaree"
- DDH233 "Fraser"
- DDH234 "Assiniboine"
- DDE236 "Gatineau" (Restigouche-class)
- DDE259 "Terra Nova"
- FFH330 "Halifax" (Halifax-class)
- FFH332 "Ville de Qubec"
- FFH333 "Toronto"
- FFH336 "Montreal"
- FFH337 "Fredericton"
- FFH339 "Charlottetown"
- FFH340 "St. John's"
- 5 Yard Auxiliary Craft
- 1 Bay-class Minesweeper
- 2 Anticosti-class Minesweeper
- 6 Kingston-class Minesweeper
-
- S72 "Ojibwa" (Oberon-class SSK)
- S73 "Onondaga"
- S74 "Okanagan"
- SSK877 "Windsor" (Upholder-class)
- SSK878 "Corner Brook"
- SSK879 "Chicoutimi"

Maritime Forces Pacific:
- DDH281 "Huron" (Iroquois-class)
- DDH283 "Algonquin"
- DDH265 "Annapolis (Annapolis-class)
- DDE261 "Mackenzie" (Mackenzie-class)
- DDE262 "Saskatchewan"
- DDE263 "Yukon"
- DDE264 "Qu'Apelle"
- FFH331 "Vancouver" (Halifax-class)
- FFH334 "Regina"
- FFH335 "Calgary"
- FFH338 "Winnipeg"
- FFH341 "Ottawa"
- 6 Yard Auxiliary Craft
- 6 Bay-class Minesweeper
- 6 Kingston-class Minesweeper
-
- SSK876 "Victoria" (Upholder-class)

Task Force "Middle-East":
- DDH280 "Iroquois" (Iroquois-class)
- DDH207 Skeena (St. Laurent-class)
- DDE257 "Restigouche" (Restigouche-class)
- DDE258 "Kootenay"
-

1) Bay-class Minesweeper is similar to US Adjudant-class Minesweeper.
2) Annapolis-class, Mackenzie-class, Restigouche-class and St.Laurent are similar to United Kingdom Leander-class but with different weapon layouts.
3) The Task Force "Middle-East is entirely made up from ship I couldn't locate precisely.

[Rainbow Six]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if certain Canadian ships are crewed by French Canadian crew and others are crewed by English speaking crews

Or are all ships crewed by a mix of French and English speakers

What I'm wondering is whether certain ships would have been likely to declare for the Quebec Government after it splits from the Canadian Federal Government

[Mohoender]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if certain Canadian ships are crewed by French Canadian crew and others are crewed by English speaking crews

Or are all ships crewed by a mix of French and English speakers

What I'm wondering is whether certain ships would have been likely to declare for the Quebec Government after it splits from the Canadian Federal Government

I think the three possibilities existed but it has to be confirmed by the Canadians. I didn't pay attention to this that much but as I was going through each ship history, I have the feeling there was something writen about this. One of the ship I listed was, I believe, noted as being the first bilingual ship in the Canadian fleet.

That what was true for Belgium, however. I think that the Belgian ships were essentially flemish speaking (after all, the sea coast is in flanders) but land units were devided among french speaking units and flemish units.

That was done for reasons of convenience. I don't know if its true but the Union had a multilingual brigade at Bull Run. The commanding officers are supposed to have been faced with tremendous problems to relay orders (might be legendary but the idea is fun). In addition, that will be a problem with units in T2K. Can anyone confirm or invalidate that one

[Fusilier]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if certain Canadian ships are crewed by French Canadian crew and others are crewed by English speaking crews

Or are all ships crewed by a mix of French and English speakers

What I'm wondering is whether certain ships would have been likely to declare for the Quebec Government after it splits from the Canadian Federal Government

Both.

Ships can be designated as English, French, or Bilingual. Note regardless of a designation - all of the officers would be bilingual (or at least having taken the required training to be bilingual).

If a unit is designated English or French, I also believe a portion (20%) will still be of the other language.

Its not a serious handicap as you might think. Even on board say a French vessel, emergency situations would be conducted in English for the safety of the English speakers.

I have my doubts as to a ship defecting en masse. Some crew sure, but not the ship. It would be over simplifying the French IMO.

[Canadian Army]

Canadian Navy Post

Nice work Mohoender, but you missed some stuff on the Canadian navy post.

1) The Orca-Class patrol vessels were constructed between November 2004 and November 2008. Prior to that Canadian used the Yard Auxiliary, General (YAG) Vessels. Which are:
CFAV Grizzly (YAG 306)
CFAV Cougar (YAG 308)
CFAV Otter (YAG 312)
CFAV Caribou (YAG 314)
CFAV Badger (YAG 319)
CFAV Lynx (YAG 320)
CFAV Pelican (YAG 4)
CFAV Gemini (YAG 650)
CFAV Pegasus (YAG 651)
CFAV Albatross (YAG 660)
CFAV Blackduck (YAG 661)

2) Canada Navy purchased the four Upholders as replacements for their old Oberons in 1998, because the British had put them in storage. I doubt this would be case in Twilight 2000.

3) Kingston-Class Coastal Defence Vessel were built and launched from the mid-to late-1990s, which means using the V1 or V2 timeline, the last three boats, could not be built due to insufficient resources in the aftermath of the nuclear attack. Here is a list the way I see it.
Built 1995 between 1997
HMCS Kingston (MM 700)
HMCS Glace Bay (MM 701)
HMCS Nanaimo (MM 702)
HMCS Edmonton (MM 703)
HMCS Shawinigan (MM 704)

Rushed into Service 1997 between 1998
HMCS Whitehorse (MM 705)
HMCS Yellowknife (MM 706)
HMCS Goose Bay (MM 707)
HMCS Moncton (MM 708)

Planned but not constructed
HMCS Saskatoon (MM 709)
HMCS Brandon (MM 710)
HMCS Summerside (MM 711)

4) The entire Iroquois class underwent major retrofits as a part of the Tribal Class Update and Modernization Project (TRUMP) in the early 1990s. These refits had the effect of re-purposing the ships for area air defence; following TRUMP the Iroquois-Class were referred to as air defence destroyers.

5) By the mid-1990s the St. Laurent, and Mackenzie ships were schedule to be decommissioned and scraped; most require an extensive refit for active service, with the only ship that would not; being the HMCS Fraser; St. Laurent-Class Destroyer Helicopter Escort; because it was used as a testbed in the 1980s for technologies used on the Halifax-Class frigate.

6) In the early 1980s a emergency re-armament plan was devised; in case of a conventional war with the Soviet Union and/or the Warsaw Pact; to convert the Restigouche class destroyers into guided-missile destroyers (DDG). This plan was used during the 1st Gulf War, when the HMCS Terra Nova became the first ever guided-missile destroyer ever to serve in the Canadian Navy.

7) The six remaining Bay-Class minesweepers were re-classed as patrol escorts in 1972 and provided ship handling experience for junior officers with Maritime Forces Pacific.
HMCS Thunder (MCB 153)
HMCS Fundy (MCB 159)
HMCS Chignecto (MCB 160)
HMCS Cowichan (MCB 162)
HMCS Chaleur (MCB 164)
HMCS Miramichi (MCB 163)

8) The HMCS Fortune; a Bay-Class minesweeper; was decommissioned in 1969 and sold into mercantile service. She was refitted as the charter yacht MV Edgewater Fortune and would mostly like be conscripted into services in 1998 or 1999.

9) The Anticosti-Class minesweepers are: HMCS Anticosti (MSA 110) and HMCS Moresby (MSA 112)

10) Missing Ships, here is a list of the Ships that are missing from the list.
HMCS Cormorant (ASL 20); Cormorant-Class Diving Support Vessel
HMCS Endeavour (AGOR 171); Endeavour-Class Oceanographic Research Ship
CFAV Sikanni (YPT 611); Sechelt-Class Torpedo and Sound Ranging Vessels
CFAV Stikine (YTP 613); Sechelt-Class Torpedo and Sound Ranging Vessels
CFAV Sooke (YDT 612); Sooke-Class Yard Diving Tender
CFAV Sechelt (YDT 610); Sooke-Class Yard Diving Tender
HMCS Protecteur (AOR 509); Protecteur-Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment
HMCS Preserver (AOR 510); Protecteur-Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment
HMCS Provider (AOR 508); Provider-Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment
CFAV Firebird (YTR 561); Fire-Class fireboat
CFAV Firebrand (YTR 562); Fire-Class fireboat
CFAV Glendyne (YTB 640); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glendale (YTB 641); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glenevis (YTB 642); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glenbrook (YTB 643); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glenside (YTB 644); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Tillicum (YTM 555); Harbor Tug
CFAV Lawrenceville (YTL 590); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Parksville (YTL 591); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Listerville (YTL 592); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Merrickville (YTL 593); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Marysville (YTL 594); Ville-Class tugs
HMCS Oriole (KC 480); Sail Training Vessel
CFAV Raccoon (YTD 10); Yard Diving Tender
Unnamed (YDT 11); Yard Diving Tender
CFAV Granby (YDT 12); Yard Diving Tender

[Mohoender]

1) The Orca-Class patrol vessels were constructed between November 2004 and November 2008. Prior to that Canadian used the Yard Auxiliary, General (YAG) Vessels. Which are:
CFAV Grizzly (YAG 306)
CFAV Cougar (YAG 308)
CFAV Otter (YAG 312)
CFAV Caribou (YAG 314)
CFAV Badger (YAG 319)
CFAV Lynx (YAG 320)
CFAV Pelican (YAG 4)
CFAV Gemini (YAG 650)
CFAV Pegasus (YAG 651)
CFAV Albatross (YAG 660)
CFAV Blackduck (YAG 661)

Thanks for that one. I effectively missed it. I'll change it.

2) Canada Navy purchased the four Upholders as replacements for their old Oberons in 1998, because the British had put them in storage. I doubt this would be case in Twilight 2000.

True and I didn't miss it. However, due to the risk of war and the restarting cold war, I simply considered that the Canadian navy chose to keep their Oberon (may be in reserve). UK keeps it's Upholder but simply builds four more for the Canadian navy.

3) Kingston-Class Coastal Defence Vessel were built and launched from the mid-to late-1990s, which means using the V1 or V2 timeline, the last three boats, could not be built due to insufficient resources in the aftermath of the nuclear attack. Here is a list the way I see it.
Built 1995 between 1997
HMCS Kingston (MM 700)
HMCS Glace Bay (MM 701)
HMCS Nanaimo (MM 702)
HMCS Edmonton (MM 703)
HMCS Shawinigan (MM 704)

Rushed into Service 1997 between 1998
HMCS Whitehorse (MM 705)
HMCS Yellowknife (MM 706)
HMCS Goose Bay (MM 707)
HMCS Moncton (MM 708)

Planned but not constructed
HMCS Saskatoon (MM 709)
HMCS Brandon (MM 710)
HMCS Summerside (MM 711)

I didn't miss that one too but my own timeline put the beginning of the war in 2000 (this explains that). I forgot to put a comment for v1.0 and v2.2. You vision is perfectly good except that the program could be accelerated.

4) The entire Iroquois class underwent major retrofits as a part of the Tribal Class Update and Modernization Project (TRUMP) in the early 1990s. These refits had the effect of re-purposing the ships for area air defence; following TRUMP the Iroquois-Class were referred to as air defence destroyers.

I noticed but I was leasy.

5) By the mid-1990s the St. Laurent, and Mackenzie ships were schedule to be decommissioned and scraped; most require an extensive refit for active service, with the only ship that would not; being the HMCS Fraser; St. Laurent-Class Destroyer Helicopter Escort; because it was used as a testbed in the 1980s for technologies used on the Halifax-Class frigate.

I didn't miss that too. I simply considered that they effecitvely underwent extended refit while they were scrapped or sold IRL. A war is coming, every ship is needed and you do with what you have.

6) In the early 1980s a emergency re-armament plan was devised; in case of a conventional war with the Soviet Union and/or the Warsaw Pact; to convert the Restigouche class destroyers into guided-missile destroyers (DDG). This plan was used during the 1st Gulf War, when the HMCS Terra Nova became the first ever guided-missile destroyer ever to serve in the Canadian Navy.

Didn't miss that too. I used this for all the Restigouche.

7) The six remaining Bay-Class minesweepers were re-classed as patrol escorts in 1972 and provided ship handling experience for junior officers with Maritime Forces Pacific.
HMCS Thunder (MCB 153)
HMCS Fundy (MCB 159)
HMCS Chignecto (MCB 160)
HMCS Cowichan (MCB 162)
HMCS Chaleur (MCB 164)
HMCS Miramichi (MCB 163)

I noticed that too, they are simply turned back to what they were. Again you do with what you have. However, it is only a point of view.

8) The HMCS Fortune; a Bay-Class minesweeper; was decommissioned in 1969 and sold into mercantile service. She was refitted as the charter yacht MV Edgewater Fortune and would mostly like be conscripted into services in 1998 or 1999.

Missed that one too. I didn't have the details. Thanks again

9) The Anticosti-Class minesweepers are: HMCS Anticosti (MSA 110) and HMCS Moresby (MSA 112)

Leasy again After all I shouldn't be the only one to do some homework.

10) Missing Ships, here is a list of the Ships that are missing from the list.
HMCS Cormorant (ASL 20); Cormorant-Class Diving Support Vessel
HMCS Endeavour (AGOR 171); Endeavour-Class Oceanographic Research Ship
CFAV Sikanni (YPT 611); Sechelt-Class Torpedo and Sound Ranging Vessels
CFAV Stikine (YTP 613); Sechelt-Class Torpedo and Sound Ranging Vessels
CFAV Sooke (YDT 612); Sooke-Class Yard Diving Tender
CFAV Sechelt (YDT 610); Sooke-Class Yard Diving Tender
HMCS Protecteur (AOR 509); Protecteur-Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment
HMCS Preserver (AOR 510); Protecteur-Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment
HMCS Provider (AOR 508); Provider-Class Auxiliary Oiler Replenishment
CFAV Firebird (YTR 561); Fire-Class fireboat
CFAV Firebrand (YTR 562); Fire-Class fireboat
CFAV Glendyne (YTB 640); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glendale (YTB 641); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glenevis (YTB 642); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glenbrook (YTB 643); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Glenside (YTB 644); Glen-Class tugs
CFAV Tillicum (YTM 555); Harbor Tug
CFAV Lawrenceville (YTL 590); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Parksville (YTL 591); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Listerville (YTL 592); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Merrickville (YTL 593); Ville-Class tugs
CFAV Marysville (YTL 594); Ville-Class tugs
HMCS Oriole (KC 480); Sail Training Vessel
CFAV Raccoon (YTD 10); Yard Diving Tender
Unnamed (YDT 11); Yard Diving Tender
CFAV Granby (YDT 12); Yard Diving Tender

Actually they are not missing really but you are right. I simply chose to list only combat ships, leaving support vessels to the imagination and knowledge of every one.

Thanks for you contribution anyway, I'll change a few things right now.

[Ed the Coastie]

She was decommissioned in 1989, but I always rule in my own T2K games the the CGC Northwind was saved from the scrapyard and placed on display in Wilmington NC next to the USS North Carolina museum ship. As a result, both of these vessels are refitted and are available for duty when the war breaks out.

[Mohoender]

She was decommissioned in 1989, but I always rule in my own T2K games the the CGC Northwind was saved from the scrapyard and placed on display in Wilmington NC next to the USS North Carolina museum ship. As a result, both of these vessels are refitted and are available for duty when the war breaks out.

Fair. Several ship I listed were in the process of being scrapped or decomissioned between 1989-1992. I considered that the change in world situation gave them a second chance.