Children Soldiers in T2K

[General Pain]

As there are many designers here on this fantastic forum - I wondered if anyone have considered the use of child soldiers in their design of factions/armies.


I'd guess that parts of Africa , Asia and the South of America would have "younger" conscripts in their ranks - but how about war-torn Europe or the States

[Mohoender]

A nice appolitically correct thread I should have expected from you General.

But aslo a perfetly valid one and I think that they will be plenty. That has been the case in the past and there is even more reason to have them in T2K.

Children soldiers were enlisted in nazi volksturm and very young men were fighting in the red army (around 16 and 17). I would argue that this will be the case again but this time in every army.

IMO children above the age of 15 will be considered good for service in many parts of the world. Occasionaly, you'll find children around 13 and 14 but they could be less common. The reason doesn't last in our humanity but in the fact that these kids will be better used elsewhere: working in the fields as soon as they reach 8, in mines between 10-14 and in factories up to 15-16.

[chico20854]

A page from the Illustrated History:

Combat replacements: In 1999, desperate for replacement soldiers,
Party authorities in the Smolensk oblast sent boys as young as 14 to
the front as combat replacements.

[Legbreaker]

I've used them myself, but usually only as shock value to the players.
In one instance I had the PCs being attacked at night during a thunderstorm with a crossbow armed enemy. A flash of lightning revealed a form crawling across a wire linking the PCs building to another. The PC on sentry in that area opened up with a burst from their RPK-74.

The following morning showed a mass of rags on the ground under the wire. Pulling back the rags showed a torn (from bullets) and battered (from the 3 storey fall) teenage girl of about 13-14 with a distinct buldge in the midsection - she was around 4-5 months pregnant and now rather dead. A loaded pistol lay near her broken body.

[Raellus]

A page from the Illustrated History:

Combat replacements: In 1999, desperate for replacement soldiers,
Party authorities in the Smolensk oblast sent boys as young as 14 to
the front as combat replacements.

God bless you, Chico! I can't wait for your Illustrated History to be published. What format will it be in

I had some really young (and really old) Polish conscripts guarding a bridge in my PotV PbP. They didn't put up much of a fight. I'd think that in some regions, a large percentage of active combatants in 2000 would be younger than 18.

[Matt Wiser]

Not just the Germans: the Russians in 1941-42 basically gave a rifle to anyone 15 or older, especially in areas immediately threatened by the German advance. At Stalingrad, a high-school principal was put in front of a military tribunal: he was taking a bunch of 16-and 17-year olds to enlist them in the Army, and half of them deserted en route. (he was probably shot)

[General Pain]

A nice appolitically correct thread I should have expected from you General.

But aslo a perfetly valid one and I think that they will be plenty. That has been the case in the past and there is even more reason to have them in T2K.

Children soldiers were enlisted in nazi volksturm and very young men were fighting in the red army (around 16 and 17). I would argue that this will be the case again but this time in every army.

IMO children above the age of 15 will be considered good for service in many parts of the world. Occasionaly, you'll find children around 13 and 14 but they could be less common. The reason doesn't last in our humanity but in the fact that these kids will be better used elsewhere: working in the fields as soon as they reach 8, in mines between 10-14 and in factories up to 15-16.

Well I'm not known for my political correctness hehe...

- POWs in asbestos mines (I didn't need the asbestos)
- starting my own religion
- declearing myself as a GODKING.
- starting my own warlord faction
- making landshrimp for food-sales
- executing political and other enemies...publically
- using POWs as mineclearers hehe
- openly admitting using assasinations
- the list goes on and on

this is all from HQs campaign...

In real life I'm not in the same position of power sadly......

[headquarters]

infantry - the original meaning.

It is a french word I believe - meaning the children of the riders that fought in the front lines.

Amny units in many armies use teenagers or young boys as a sort of apprentice or drummer boy etc to do non combat related tasks in a combat unit .

In modern armies they will do foraging,be drivers,do maintenance ,menial tasks etc and over the years grow into their role as a squaddie or NCO in the unit .

In some places they are given a gun and pushed to the front .

I f I am not incorrect Brits and Yanks use kids as young as 16 in training units etc stationed in teh home country .When they reach 17 they are allowed to take combat assignments .

Not to mention all those who lie about age .

yes- the evil marauder chief will ride up to the stout yeomanry and extort a couple of boys that he will enlist at as porters and over time they will pass into the ranks or die as slaves.

[Ironside]

An earlier thread asked 'where are all the PFCs', I would suggest that they're here. Commanders wishing to fill the TO with warm bodies aren't always that choosy.

[rcaf_777]

It is a french word I believe - meaning the children of the riders that fought in the front lines.

Amny units in many armies use teenagers or young boys as a sort of apprentice or drummer boy etc to do non combat related tasks in a combat unit .

In modern armies they will do foraging,be drivers,do maintenance ,menial tasks etc and over the years grow into their role as a squaddie or NCO in the unit .
In some places they are given a gun and pushed to the front .

I f I am not incorrect Brits and Yanks use kids as young as 16 in training units etc stationed in teh home country .When they reach 17 they are allowed to take combat assignments .

Not to mention all those who lie about age .

yes- the evil marauder chief will ride up to the stout yeomanry and extort a couple of boys that he will enlist at as porters and over time they will pass into the ranks or die as slaves.

I thinks local guides would not be to much of a stretch

[Raellus]

Innocence is the First Casualty of War

The OP is from 2009. In 2012, inspired by a documentary I watched about a former Liberian warlord who called himself General Butt-Naked (you can guess why), I decided to create an encounter with child soldiers for the players in my Pirates of the Vistula Campaign, Twilight Cruise. I was thinking about it today. Much to my surprise, I didn't think to mention it here. Better late than never, right

I thought an encounter with child soldiers would present the players with a difficult but interesting moral and ethical conundrum. Would they avoid killing children, if it could be avoided

The premise for the presence of child soldiers was that a former Polish security services operative who'd posed as a high school teacher before the war (to gather intel on anti-gov't student groups) had, in the apocalypse, set herself up as the "Queen" of Plock (essentially a variation on a marauder warlord). She used her keen understanding of child psychology and propaganda tactics to create a small army of child soldiers. Here's a blurb in which the party first learned about the nature of said force:

"The size of this army is hard to determine. The boy says thousands, but, once again, his number sense doesn't seem very well developed, so the accuracy of the figure seems objectively doubtful. The army is divided into several "companies" of a "couple hundred". Each company has a colorful title and a corresponding mode of dress that sets it apart from the others. There appears to be a fairly good-natured competition between these companies for the Queen's favor. There's the "Beasties" of whom the boy is one. There are also "Monsters", "Sportos", "Supers", and "Kung Fus". Each company is led by a cadre of older boys, the bulk of each unit consisting of boys ranging in age from fourteen to eight. The teenager with the wrecked eye currently tied to the aft railing is the sub-commander of the Beasties.

This rag-tag child army has apparently defeated all efforts of any of the surrounding powers- government and marauder (apparently including the now defunct Vistula Korsairs)- from annexing plock. "Everybody knows we're not to be f****d with." the boy proudly proclaims. The Queen's army not only defends Plock and its growing community of small farmers, it also mounts occasional raids to secure needed resources and new recruits. The Queen's army is well equipped with small arms but does not appear to have much in the way of heavy weapons. The boy doesn't seem to know much in the way of military tactics. It sounds like their martial success is more due to their shocking appearance and near suicidal bravery than anything else."

Each of the named companies was themed. The Supers all dressed like superheroes, the Beasties like animals, etc. I got this idea from seeing photos of real child soldiers from the Liberian conflict. One was dressed up as Batman. It was terrifying.

The party had a nighttime encounter with some of these child soldiers and a few of the latter were killed. At the time, the party didn't know it was fighting child soldiers. They learned of this unfortunate fact later.

Upon the party's arrival at Plock, the self-styled Queen demanded restitution for the dead children in the form of several thousand rounds of 12.7mm ammunition, which the party had aboard the river tug in abundance. I thought for sure that the party would pay up and be on its way. Instead, they decided to overthrow the Queen of Plock. This, of course, required fighting the Queen's child army. It was a bloodbath. Dozens of child soldiers were killed before the Queen was eliminated. It was the hardest encounter, emotionally speaking, that I'd ever run. I actually regretted coming up with the encounter.

If you've used or encountered child soldiers in your campaign, I'd love to hear about it.

-

[The Zappster]

I ran a merc style game a few years back. The team were an advanced team of paratroopers sent into A West African country to assess the area before the main body of troops came in to restore order and help build up the infrastructure. The encounter took place in daylight so the 8 man (3 PC's and 5 NPC's) squad could see who there opponents were. The squad ran into a well placed road block at very short range as the bush was quite thick. There opponents were a team of young irregulars with a couple of fearless, drug fueled 12 year olds. Long story shortish, the squad corporal tried to defuse the situation but was also the first to fire when he realized it hadn't worked. The player justified his actions by explaining that the age didn't matter when they have AK's. He wasn't wrong, 7.62 short doesn't discriminate, but as the squad moved to remove the weapons from the dead the corporal come close to the result of his actions and I made him roll a willpower check, which he failed badly. From that point on i would roll a willpower check for him in secrete when he slept, if he failed badly he would wake in a cold sweat or if he failed REALLY badly he would wake shouting or screaming.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Child combatants is one of those horrifying, moral grey areas that can really mess with a person, or harden them in a way that society doesn't really care for.

I think this is one of those areas where it's worth discussing with the Players how they feel their Characters will react (although this should not be done before you spring the first encounter on them otherwise the shock value would be lost). I think it should be a case by case basis (and fortunately with the game you're only dealing with a small number of people, i.e. the Players, to sort this out).

I feel that there are some Characters who would not be particularly effected by encountering child soldiers. Some of those people have endured the hardship of war for so many years that they have become closed off from the emotional impact, simply as a survival technique (for their mental health) if nothing else.

There are other soldiers who may have encountered child soldiers before, in operations before the Twilight War, so the emotional distress isn't as impactful to them.

I'm not saying every Player should be allowed to use this as some sort of "Get out of jail Free" card, it's not to be used as an excuse to avoid the consequences. It's just that I know from talks I've had with Vietnam War veterans, some of them dealt with this sort of situation in the past and of those, some of them expressed the attitude that they would not hesitate to shoot an enemy soldier simply because the enemy was a child.

Harsh Definitely. Brutal Absolutely. But it's survival and not just physical survival. Some of them adopted that attitude for their mental survival as well "They will kill me or my comrades if I do not kill them first" sort of thing.

[Gunner]

To directly answer the question you asked, my answer is no.

To answer the implied question, my answer is HELL NO, and any player who attempted to introduce them would be banished from my group. Period. End of story.

Yes, such things happen in real life. So does rape. I have ZERO tolerance for ANY player who wants to explore these issues in MY game. Period. End of story.

I'm refereeing a GAME, not a real world simulation.

[Targan]

I don't hold back at all as a GM. I wouldn't role play WWIII and a semi-apocalypse as some sort of happy boys' own adventure. Total war is a nightmare. A game in that sort of realistic setting should be realistic. There were parts of my last campaign that were quite distressing to run. Frankly if I hadn't found them distressing, I think there'd be something wrong with me.

I think I'd try to stop child soldiers from being a threat by non-lethal means if I could, but if someone is pointing a rifle at you, Big Boys' Rules apply. It would probably haunt me for life, but what are you supposed to do, stand there and get shot

In-game most PCs are human wreckage anyway. Some might shoot a child solider, feel devastated and be non-functional as a combat asset for some period. Some might just have yet another piece of their soul chipped off and just carry on. I think that anyone who is able to shoot kids and not have it affect them in a negative way is probably clinically insane.