US Army issue weapons

[pmulcahy11b]

Yes, the M7 Bayonet was able to be mounted on the M16A2/M203 grenade launcher combo, I have heard that some very early SAWs could also mount a bayonet <I have never seen this only "heard">

I've never seen an M-16A1 or A2 that could mount a bayonet. (OK, technically, that's wrong -- you can do it, but you DEFINITELY had better NOT fire a grenade with the bayonet mounted, as it sticks down in front of the M-203s barrel.) As far as the SAW -- the Minimi can still be gotten by the buying country with the ability to mount a bayonet. Consequently, early LRIP versions of the M-249 could mount a bayonet. Very few were actually made like that, though.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yes, the M7 Bayonet was able to be mounted on the M16A2/M203 grenade launcher combo, I have heard that some very early SAWs could also mount a bayonet <I have never seen this only "heard">

As for the M16A2 verses the AK, I personaly would stick with a 16 over an AK unless there were no amo, then sure the AK would be taken as a working weapon over a useless weapon is always preferable. The 16 is much better when it comes to precision and distance than the AK. And I personaly would rather engage an enemy at a distance where I have the advantage over them. And that distance is 500m for the 16 verses 300m for the AK. And even at 300 and 200m, I will be able to put a round where I want it. For an AK I may hit the target but putting it in the head, the chest, or in a limited area that maybe all that is exposed which could be no more than 8 or 12 inches <think of the Death of Cowboy in Full Metal Jacket> well an AK doesn't have that level of accuracy.

Next, the training that was mentioned.

And would there be enough AKs back in the US to equip units to train them with before they go overseas Would there be enough in the UK, Canada or Oz For troops in theater the weapons would be there, but at home, who were raised after everything has fallen apart but sent to bolster the troops abroad, that doesn't seem likely.

If I recall the early SAWs were able to bayonet.

As a matter of fact I think many NATO troop would stick with their national issue weapon over the Pact AKs. You know I see units picking up and storing AKs, RPKs, and PKs only after out running their supply chain had become issue, or like I have noted troops such as those in armor units where after having to leave the tank with the entire crew surviving and being equipped with 2 M3s and pistols. I can see many tank commanders acquiring what rifles they could so if they had to abandon their tank, they would be of some use as Infantry role.

I think the US and many of the others listed have enough of their older equipment they would start to use that first. I know the US still has WWII stock they would issue.

Now for Germans using the AKs and what not for new troops. Yes, they would take the bulk, even with the West German industrial base, they wouldn't have the ability to equip all new troops. They don't have left stockpiles of weapons either that others would have.

Next is the ammo for these weapons that would become issue. Would we set up industrial sites to manufacture ammo. Yes, for a small scale compare to the ammo being produced for 5.56N and 7.62N ammo and such. Even larger rounds there wouldn't be much urgency to make rounds for the enemy weapons until things start to break down and by then it would be too late.

[Eddie]

The sling swivel is on the right side of the modified handguard, below the leaf sight for the GL. It can be moved to the left side, but is normally found on the right side.

I just noticed something...the second picture you have there is a newer model, mounted via a MIL-STD-1913 rail to the M-4.

Minor nitpick, normally the swivel is on the left hand side due to the majority of firers being right-handed. The right-handed swivels are the oddball, but it takes all of 2 minutes to change with a mallet and a punch. About five minutes with a Gerber and a dental pick.

[jester]

Minor nitpick, normally the swivel is on the left hand side due to the majority of firers being right-handed. The right-handed swivels are the oddball, but it takes all of 2 minutes to change with a mallet and a punch. About five minutes with a Gerber and a dental pick.

We would just thread the sling through the front sight. Or 550 cord with out modified thai slings.

[jester]

AMMO:

here is one problem with taking AKs.

What are you going to reload The majority of PACT forces use soft steel cases that can not be reloaded. Whereas most Nato forces use brass cases that can be reloaded.

So, in the end AK ammo is going to run out with reloadable ammo being scarce.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yes that will be a problem later in the war, after 1998 when many of the facilities that produce said ammo have been heavily damage and for all purposes been put of business.

It is part of the reason why by 2000 unit that were motorized/mechanized and had room to store extra weapon would have of each on hand. Many local the militia were equipped with mix using what ammo that could be found.

Even with reloadable cartridges, they NATO rounds could only be reload so many times. So by 2000 any round types are becoming rare.

[Webstral]

Forces in CONUS generally aren't going to have to luxury of choosing between the AK and the M16 series. In the Southwest, there will be some FN FAL rifles available. However, sufficient FN rifles for the purpose of equipping a battalion-sized formation probably won't be available in very many locations. US forces in Texas may have captured a few AK series weapons, but we should bear in mind that Fifth US Army lost the big fight in 1999. If anything, Division Cuba, Fourth Mexican Army, and the local bandits are going to have the luxury of using or not using US equipment.

As a rule, I think CONUS-based forces are going to have to use whatever comes to hand. Although 111th Brigade captures a fair number of FN FAL in June 1998, along with other Mexican gear, the senior leadership tells Thomason to stick with the M16. He listens. The FALs go to 3rd AZSTAG Brigade.

SAMAD copes with the maintenance issues with a combination of training and lubrication. A chemist at University of Arizona at Tucson perfects a workable means of producing a silicone-type of lubricant to replace petroleum-based lubricants. Local gunsmiths working at Fort Huachuca devise a rather labor-intensive means of manufactuting new rifle barrels and other parts. Since Fort Huachuca has the luxury of training new recruits properly, thanks to a) all the dead people in Phoenix who won't be eating the food the federal government set aside for them and b) the victory over the Mexicans in the Battle of Southern Arizona and subsequent back-burner status enjoyed by SAMAD, the troops learn how to use and maintain their M16 rifles properly in the desert environment.

Not everyone has this luxury, of course. By early 2001, the M16s being used by the Shogun's army in Nevada are getting long in the tooth. Most of their small arms, though, are shotguns and hunting rifles.

It should be borne in mind, though, that a fair number of Bloc-style weapons were in civilian hands in the United States by the end of 1997. I read in 1996 or so that 10 million SKS rifles had come in from China before the trade was shut down. I bought one. It's not a prom queen, but it works well. SKS and AK-47/MAK-90 rifles probably would be prized for their durability. Standardizing them in any large unit might be a bit of a problem, though. Hm. I wonder if New America would have been in the market for scads of inexpensive SKS rifles. With new stocks for larger users, the SKS could make a veruy serviceable standard rifle for a New American cell. Food for thought...

Webstral

[Eddie]

We would just thread the sling through the front sight. Or 550 cord with out modified thai slings.

That's what I did as well. Until one of my guys gave me his extra single-point sling. I'll never go back now.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

... SAMAD copes with the maintenance issues with a combination of training and lubrication. A chemist at University of Arizona at Tucson perfects a workable means of producing a silicone-type of lubricant to replace petroleum-based lubricants.

Don't forget graphite powder lubricant for smallarms, although it does tend to be corrosive to aluminium and some other alloys if the powder gets wet. Graphite powder lubes can also be found in hardware stores and may be overlooked by the average cityslicker looking for weapons lube.
Plus there are several regions where it's mined in North America. This page has a map right at the bottom showing localities for graphite deposits http://www.mindat.org/min-1740.html Zooming in shows a number of sites in Arizona so graphite mining may be extra food for thought for you

[copeab]

If you're really desperate to put a bayonet on an M16/M203, you could always modify the lug mount so it was on the side of the barrel rather than underneath .

[Webstral]

Don't forget graphite powder lubricant for smallarms, although it does tend to be corrosive to aluminium and some other alloys if the powder gets wet. Graphite powder lubes can also be found in hardware stores and may be overlooked by the average cityslicker looking for weapons lube.
Plus there are several regions where it's mined in North America. This page has a map right at the bottom showing localities for graphite deposits http://www.mindat.org/min-1740.html Zooming in shows a number of sites in Arizona so graphite mining may be extra food for thought for you

Thanks for the link. SAMAD may find itself obliged to go with graphite for at least some applications, but my initial instinct has been to shy away from it for the wear issues. My very limited experience with graphite as a lube in Iraq has been that by about 75 rounds, the graphite has been blown out of the chamber of an M16 and needs to be replenished. This isn't the end of the world, but it does mean that jams and misfeeds can become likely at an uncomfortable time. I'm not keen at all on grahpite for machine guns. We tried some under non-combat conditions and discovered that jams happen quite quickly unless there's a LOT of graphite in there. I never had a chance to observe graphite lube in the machine guns under combat conditions.

Still, if graphite is readily available, it's hard to see it being turned away. I suspect that over the long haul, there may be some sort of wear-and-tear trade-off between the tendency of sand and grit to become mixed into a liquid lubricant and the abrasiveness of wet graphite. Perhaps a seasonal variation is in order: no graphite during the monsoon or during the winter rainy season.

Thanks for the feedback. Even if I don't use graphite for the small arms, there are many industrial processes that will require lubricants. Better yet, as I look ahead to the (inevitable) reconciliation between Fort Huachuca and Colorado Springs, the way will be smoothed by greater amounts and types of vital products coming from SAMAD. Lubricants certainly count as vital products.

Webstral

[pmulcahy11b]

If you're really desperate to put a bayonet on an M16/M203, you could always modify the lug mount so it was on the side of the barrel rather than underneath .

With the new mounts, you can't even do that -- the standard bayonet lug is used as part of the mount for grenade launcher. You'd have to add a second bayonet lug.

[pmulcahy11b]

Don't forget graphite powder lubricant for smallarms, although it does tend to be corrosive to aluminium and some other alloys if the powder gets wet. Graphite powder lubes can also be found in hardware stores and may be overlooked by the average cityslicker looking for weapons lube.

Just a little while ago, I was watching an episode of How's it Made in which they were making graphite fishing rods. That makes me wonder -- could you make lubrication-quality graphite from such items

[Webstral]

AMMO:

here is one problem with taking AKs.

What are you going to reload The majority of PACT forces use soft steel cases that can not be reloaded. Whereas most Nato forces use brass cases that can be reloaded.

So, in the end AK ammo is going to run out with reloadable ammo being scarce.

Steel cases can be reloaded. I've done it with 7.62x39mm ammunition for my SKS. The drawback with the steel casings is that they are much harder on the reloading equipment, if you use run-of-the-mill gear. You have to have carbide tools that are harder than the casings. Not everyone has them. I used an associate's reloading equipment when I reloaded used steel casings. In effect, reloaded 7.62x39mm ammunition is going to come from only those sources that have the right equipment to cope with the steel casings. Also, as steel is less malleable than brass, steel casings can be reloaded fewer times than brass casings of the same caliber.

In the US, on the other hand, you can find 7.62x39mm ammunition in brass. It's more expensive, but it's easier to reload. Cheaper Bloc 7.62x39mm ammunition flooded the market in the 1990's; I bought a bunch. However, anyone with a mind for reloading probably bought the more expensive brass. Certainly, anyone looking to keep a field force equipped for the long haul would give serious consideration to stocking up on brass as opposed to steel casings. Again, I'm thinking of a New America cell for which I have been developing ideas as I have been watching programs on the Holocaust and various White supremist movements in the US. (One must remain aware of the enemy's state.)

Webstral

[Targan]

I suspect that over the long haul, there may be some sort of wear-and-tear trade-off between the tendency of sand and grit to become mixed into a liquid lubricant and the abrasiveness of wet graphite. Perhaps a seasonal variation is in order: no graphite during the monsoon or during the winter rainy season.

That makes a lot of sense Web.