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Dose anybody have OOB or thoughs on this, I am thinking about 207th being expanded into a makeshift Division with a ANG Division from Calforina being used.
Any thoughts
Any thoughts
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I will not hide. I will not be deterred nor will I be intimidated from my performing my duty, I am a Canadian Soldier. -
I'm pretty sure the 207th is covered in the US Army Sourcebook as either the 1st or 2nd Brigade, AK ARNG. While any reinforcements for either brigade would be welcome, any troops from California's National Guard should be moved before the nukes. After that point, the National Guard is going to be pretty well tied up with dealing with the nuclear strikes that affect the San Francisco Bay and Los Angeles, plus the influx of Mexican refugees.
Webstral“We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998. -
I know Jason Weiser is working on this right now.
What we're working off of is:
On the US side you have the 47th ID (National Guard) that deploys to backfill the 6th ID when it goes to Norway. 207th splits into the 1st and 2nd Arctic recon bdes. And in early 96 the Army stands up an experimental arctic hovercraft bde, using the systems in the v2 US Army Vehicle Guide. Of some use doing static security is about 3 battalions of Alaska state guardsmen, and in the Aluetians there is a USMC Security "company" (almost 500 strong) and USAF security police.
On the Soviet side, the Aluetian Front fields:
51st Combined Arms Army (Yuzhno Sakhalinsk)
Direct reporting:
138th Independent MRR (Magadan): T-55, 1 bn BMP-1, 2 bns BTR-70, 12 D-30
1101st Independent MRR (Dolinsk): T-72, 1 bn BMP-2, 2 bns BTR-70, 12 2S1
264th Artillery Bde (Solovevka): 54 2S36
567th Independent Howitzer Rgt (Yuzhno Sakhalinsk): 36 D-30, 36 2S5
204th Artillery Rgt (Petropavlovsk-Kamchakty): 36 S-23, 36 2S19
460th Independent AT Rgt (Yuzhno Sakhalinsk): 48 BS-3, 24 MTLB w/AT-6
31st Anti-Aircraft Missile Bde (Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk): SA-10
75th Missile Bde (Yuzhno Sakhalinsk): SS-23
316th Independent Engineer-Sapper Rgt (Yuzhno Sakhalinsk)
22nd "Krasnodar-Harbin" Motor-Rifle Division (Chapaevka)
- 211th MRR (Dolinovka): T-74, BTR-70, 12 D-30
- 246th MRR (Rodygino): T-74, BTR-70, 12 D-30
- 304th MRR (Chapaevka): T-74, BMP-2, 12 D-30
- 112th Tank Rgt (Chapaevka): T-74, BMP-2, 12 2S1
- 59th Indedpendent Tank Bn (Chapaevka): T-74
- 996th Artillery Rgt (Chapaevka): 36 2A36, 18 BM-21
- 1006th Anti-Aircraft Missile Rgt (Chapaevka): SA-11
- 784th Independent Missile Bn: 4 FROG-7
- 309th Independent Recon Bn (Chapaevka): T-74, BMP-2
- 765th Independent Engineer Bn
33rd Motor-Rifle Division (Khomutovo)
- 377th MRR (Dolinsk): T-72, BTR-60, 6 SU-130, 12 D-30
- 465th MRR (Aniva): T-72, BMP-1, 6 SU-130, 12 D-30
- 389th MRR (Dachnoye): T-72, BTR-60, 6 SU-130, 12 D-30, 6 D-44
- 192nd TR (Aniva): T-72, BMP-1, 12 D-30
- 97th Independent Tank Bn (Aniva): T-72
- 989th Artillery Rgt (Aniva): 24 D-20, 12 D-30, 12 BM-21
- U/I Anti-Aircraft Missile Rgt (Dolinsk): SA-6
- U/I Independent Missile Bn (Aniva): 4 FROG-7
- 88th Independent Recon Bn (Listvenichnvi): BMP-1
- 162th Independent Engineer Bn (Listvenichnvi)
79th 'Lyuban-Katowice-Donbas' Motor-Rifle Division (Leonidova)
- 157th MRR (Pobedino): T-34/85, BTR-60, 9 M-30
- 396th MRR (Leonidova): T-34/85, trucks, 9 M-30
- 398th MRR (Gastello): T-34/85, BMP-3, 18 2S1
- 214th TR (Leonidova): T-55, BMP-3, 12 M-30
- 98th Independent Tank Bn (Leonidova): T-55
- 284th Artillery Rgt (Leonidova): 18 A-19, 12 D-1, 12 BM-21
- 1228th Anti-Aircraft Artillery Rgt (Pobedino): S-60
- U/I Independent Missile Bn (Leonidova): 3 FROG-7
- 124th Independent Recon Bn (Leonidova)" PT-76, BRDM-2
- 43rd Independent Engineer Bn (Leonidova)
25th Army Corps (Petropavlovsk-Kamchatka)
Direct reporting:
1st Arctic Mechanized Bde
2nd Arctic Mechanized Bde
921st Artillery Rgt (Nagorny): 36 2S5, 18 D-20
280th Independent "Ussuri" Engineer Rgt (Anadyr)
87th Motor-Rifle Division (Petropavlovsk-Kamchatka)
- 257th Guards MRR: T-55, BTR-60, 6 SU-130, 9 M-30
- 1378th MRR: trucks, 9 D-44, no tanks
- 1328th MRR: trucks, 9 D-44, no tanks
- 1496th TR: T-55, BTR-50, 12 M-30
- 277th Artillery Rgt: 12 M-46, 18 M-30, 12 BM-21
- U/I Anti-Aircraft Artillery Rgt: 37mm
- U/I Independent Missile Bn: 3 FROG-3
- 226th Independent Recon Bn: PT-76, BTR-40
- 357th Independent Engineer Bn
99th Motor-Rifle Division (Anadyr)
- 1323rd MRR (Anadyr): T-55, MTLB, 9 D-44
- 1324th MRR (Anadyr): T-55, MTLB, 9 D-44
- 1326th MRR: T-55, MTLB, 9 D-44
- 1327th MRR (Anadyr): T-55, MTLB, 9 D-44
- 1003rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Bn: SA-11
- U/I Independent Missile Bn: 4 SS-21
- 618th Independent Recon Bn: PT-76, MTLB
- 20th Independent Engineer Bn
18th M-G Artillery Division (Iturup)
- 46th MG-Arty Rgt (Kunashir)
- 49th MG-Arty Rgt (Lagunov, Iturup)
- 484th MG-Arty Rgt (Iturup): 2 fortress bns, mobile bn
- 601st MG-Arty Rgt (Iturup): 2 fortress bns, mobile bn
- 605th MG-Arty Rgt (Iturup): 2 fortress bns, mobile bn
- 209th Anti-Aircraft Missile Bn (Iturup)
- 110th Independent Tank Bn (Iturup): T-72
- 264th Independent Mobile Bn (Kunashir): T-72, BMP-2
- 1114th Independent Engineer Bn (Iturup)
Let me know if you want the air side.I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end...Comment
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Originally posted by chico20854 View Post
Hi Chico,
Glad to see you back. I'd love to see the air side if you don't mind.Comment
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Hell yes! We would love to see an air orbat Chico!Comment
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On the U.S. side, we have:
159th Tactical Fighter Wing (LAANG) NAS New Orleans, LA Shemya AFB, AK
122nd TFS 18 F-15A
110th TFS 18 F-15A
343rd Tactical Fighter Wing Eielson AFB, AK
11th TASS 18 A-10A
18th TFS 18 A-10A
25th TASS 18 OV-10A
21st Tactical Fighter Wing Elmendorf AFB, AK
43rd TFS 18 F-15A
54th TFS 18 F-15A
det 1 F-15A Galena AS, AK
det 2 F-15A King Salmon AS, AK
616th Tactical Airlift Group Elmendorf AFB, AK
17th TAS 12 C-130H
det 1 4 C-12
176th Composite Wing (AKANG) Kulis ANGB, AK
144th TAS 12 C-130H
168th ARS 8 KC-135R Eielson AFB, AK
962d AWCS 3 E-3C Elmendorf AFB, AK
939th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Wing (peacetime HQ Portland IAP, OR) Elmendorf AFB, AK
71st ARRS 12 HH-60G Elmendorf AFB, AK
210th ARRS (AKANG) 3/6 HC-130P/MH-60G Kulis ANGB, AK
304th ARRS (AFRES) 6/6 HC-130H/HH-60G (Portland IAP, OR) Shemya AFB, AK
6th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing Eielson AFB, AK
24th SRS 2/1/4 KC/TC/RC-135 Eielson AFB, AK
det 1 3 RC-135S Cobra Ball Shemya AFB, AK
141st Aerial Refueling Wing Fairchild AFB, WA Shemya AFB, AK
116th ARS 8 KC-135E Shemya AFB, AK
and the Soviets have...
Air defense is provided by elements of the PVO's 11th Air Army, based out of Khabarovsk. It has in the area:
308th Fighter Rgt PVO (Sovetskaya Gavan', Primorskiy Kray): MiG-23MLD
387th Fighter Rgt PVO (Burevestnik, Iturup): MiG-23MLD
24th PVO Division (Petropavlovsk):
- 865th Fighter Rgt PVO (Yelizovo, Petropavlovsk-Kamchatka): MiG-31
- U/I SAM Brigade
40th PVO Division (Dolinsk):
- 777th Fighter Rgt PVO (Matrosovo, Sakhalin): Su-15TM
- 365th Fighter Rgt PVO (Sokol airfield, Dolinsk): MiG-31
- 528th Fighter Rgt PVO (Leonidovo, Sakhalin): Su-27
On the attack air side, things are less defined - Far Eastern TVD has been in action for almost 2 years nonstop by the time the Alaska operation kicks off, and the augmentees from the rest of the USSR returned to their home bases when war broke out in the west.
Tactical air would come from the 1st Air Army in Khabarovsk: (starting locations are here, what their location & condition is by the time the Alaska op kicks off hasn't been worked out yet).
7th Guards Independent Shturmovik Rgt (Galenki): Su-25
56th Recon Rgt (Varfolomeyevka): MiG-25RB, Su-24MR)
187th Independent Shturmovik Rgt (Chernigovka): Su-25)
257th Independent Mixed Rgt (Khabarovsk) An-12, An-26, Mi-8T
293rd Recon Rgt (Vozzhayevka, Belogorsk district): Su-17M3R, MiG-25
799th Recon Rgt (Varfolomeyevka): Su-24MR
unknown ECM sqn. (Khabarovsk): Su-24PP, Su-24MP
20th Fighter Division (Druzhba)
- 216th Fighter Rgt (Kalinovka, near Khabarovsk): Su-27
- 404th Fighter Rgt (Orlovka): MiG-29
- 821st Fighter Rgt (Spassk-Dalniy): MiG-23MLD
33rd "Khinganskaya" Fighter-Bomber Division (Pereyaslavka)
- 22nd Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Birofeld): Su-17
- 26th Guards Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Uchastok): Su-17M3
- 229th Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Birofeld): Su-17M
- 300th Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Pereyaslavka): MiG-27
40th Fighter Division (Belogorsk)
- 41st Fighter Rgt (Orlovka): MiG-29
- unknown Fighter Rgt (Belogorsk):
83rd Fighter-Bomber Division (Pereyaslavka-Verino)
- 42nd Bomber Rgt (Pereyaslavka [Verino]): Su-24)
- 277th "Mlavskiy" Bomber Rgt (Khurba [Komsomolsk-na-Amure]): Su-24
- 302nd Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Pereyaslavka): Su-17M3, converting to Su-24
303rd "Smolensk" Fighter-Bomber Division (Ussuri)
- 18th Guards "Vitebsk" Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Galenki): MiG-27D/M
- 224th Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Ozernaya Pad' [Kremovo]): MiG-27
- 523rd "Orscha" Fighter-Bomber Rgt (Vozdvizhenka): Su-17M4
Long range transports from the 14th Transport Division (Aeroflot), from Irkutsk:
-1st MVD Transport Regiment (50 IL-76MD)
-1st Aeroflot Transport Regiment (45 IL-76M)
-3rd Aeroflot Transport Regiment (45 IL-76MD)
There could also be long-range bombers from both Long Range Aviation (equivalent to SAC) or Naval Aviation available.
also, we had a discussion a few months back about the Alaska campaign. You might want to check it out, folks had some good ideas!
I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end...Comment
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Actually ... Did the DC group do a study on what refineries would still be up and running to produce all the avgas needed to fly the jets I am curious as to what oilfields and refineries and the techs to run it will come from*************************************
Each day I encounter stupid people I keep wondering... is today when I get my first assault charge??Comment
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Since the Alaska Invasion started in June-July 97, before the nuclear exchange hit targets in CONUS, the full array of refineries, oilfields and techs were in place.
The orbats are for October 1, 1996, more or less. (The Soviets probably shifted some units around, since the Aluetian Front has to defend the Kuriles, Sakhalin and Petropavlovsk in addition to pulling off the Alaska invasion).
A lot of the air action also will be directed across the Arctic Ocean and into Eastern Siberia, since there is the threat of long range bomber strikes coming across the Arctic.
We are still working on a slightly revised nuclear target list. Most of the large refineries are on it, in line with the target list published by GDW. Oil fields are a tougher target, since they cover large areas and would require a lot of megatonnage to destroy. It's more efficient to hit the petroleum system at more centralized points, like refineries, port facilities or pipeline junctions.
U.S. casualties, according to Howling Wilderness, are 52% of the pre-war population. Barring some evidence that refinery and oilfield technicians (or computer engineers or any other technician) had a significantly higher casualty rate, it is reasonable to assume that about 52% of the prewar population of oilfield techs would be be alive. (With that said, I could see refinery tech casualties being higher, since they were working in nuclear targets, yet not all of them were at work when their workplaces were hit, not to mention the retirees, vacationers, people who had moved on to other jobs, etc). By 2000 I'm pretty sure that in areas controlled by either Milgov or Civgov someone would have thought to ask the residents of the various refugee camps and relocation centers the question "what did you do before the war" and be interested when the respones came back "oilfied roughneck" "petroleum engineer" "power company lineman" and the like. (On the other hand, people that responded with "financial analyst" or "insurance agent" would swiftly sent back to work in the fields).I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end...Comment
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Makes me wonder how many people will say that they have skills that they don't actually have in order to get out of working in the fields...Originally posted by chico20854 View PostAuthor of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United KingdomComment
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The chicanery would match the tolerance of the government for said chicanery. In Thunder Empire, the survivors are polled for skills repeatedly. People who don't have the skills they claim are demoted to criminal status and have to live with the convicts, whose lives are not pleasant. Obviously, there has to be some leeway given. Having the interrogation school on-hand, plus the support of police detectives, helps get the facts out in the open once there is some doubt about whether a given survivor really is a proper chemist, gunsmith, etc.Originally posted by Rainbow Six View Post
Webstral“We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998.Comment
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Of course that's a death rate of 52%....Originally posted by chico20854 View Post
How many more would be unfit for work due to injury, illness (specifically radiation sickness), mental breakdown, or just plain being a thousand miles away from where they're needed and without transport
I would imagine that perhaps as little as 10% of prewar numbers are available, maybe more, maybe less.If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.
Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"
Mors ante pudoremComment
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Actually we do have a great resource for what it takes to rebuild a refinery conplex destroyed by terrorist action....
The first chapter of "Red Storm Rising" by Tom Clancy.*************************************
Each day I encounter stupid people I keep wondering... is today when I get my first assault charge??Comment
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Can't say I've read it.
I imagine that rebuilding was done in a relatively peaceful world where the necessary resources (people included) weren't badly needed elsewhereIf it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.
Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"
Mors ante pudoremComment
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If it would help anyone I could post a list of all US refineries and their distance from canon nuclear strikes. Would take me about 20 min I think.
Not that there would be a one to one correlation on distance to damage, but you would assume that those within 10 miles of a strike would fair worse than those 500 miles away from one.Comment
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OMG Leg... its got the whole battle in Europe in the TWL 2000 before nukes set up... and the timeline is great... it even has air attack by regiments of Backfire bombers against a Carrier attack group... of course some of the story line is week... but its a definate read....Originally posted by Legbreaker View PostCan't say I've read it.
I imagine that rebuilding was done in a relatively peaceful world where the necessary resources (people included) weren't badly needed elsewhere*************************************
Each day I encounter stupid people I keep wondering... is today when I get my first assault charge??Comment
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