French involvement in the Europe after 2001.

[Adm.Lee]

Small teams and agent networks are all I've been thinking the French would be able to do for a while. Were I them, I would be wanting to collect intelligence from the east as much as possible, with an eye to influencing things in a pro-French direction.

[pmulcahy11b]

Small teams and agent networks are all I've been thinking the French would be able to do for a while. Were I them, I would be wanting to collect intelligence from the east as much as possible, with an eye to influencing things in a pro-French direction.

Or drop off teams of Australian SAS by sub in Poland to pick up a package, as in Twilight Encounters. BTW, has anyone come up with a possible back story behind that one

[Targan]

Or drop off teams of Australian SAS by sub in Poland to pick up a package, as in Twilight Encounters. BTW, has anyone come up with a possible back story behind that one

No, but here's an idea. They needed the best in the world for a mission, and got them.

[Legbreaker]

They needed more spare parts for their MP-5's and stupidly trusted the Frence to drop them off in Germany

There could be any number of reasons, but I just can't think of any particularly important ones. Australia has just come out of a war with Indonesia which resulted in the near total destruction of Australia's naval and air assets. It's also popssible that we're engaged in Korea as part of the UN forces there. There are indications also that Australians are located on Cyprus carrying out peacekeeping duties with the UN.

With all that activity elsewhere, I'm not so sure an SAS mission in devastated Poland would be all that high up on the list of priorities...

[Rainbow Six]

So with all these issues, I'd say France has its work cut out just trying to keep things together, never mind going off on foreign adventures except for the aforementioned small teams and individual agents. I can see the French in the Middle-East because of the oil, but I don't see them doing much in Africa. The only thing I could come up with is setting up transportation nodes in the African coast, to safeguard the Middle-East oil shipments from pirates and the like. But stuff like interfering in Canada, or South America, or Asia... I dunno. I just don't think they have the resources for that.

There's a lot of oil in Algeria, which is just a short hop across the Med from Marseille, but there's also a lot of history between France and Algeria, so I have no clue how that might play out

Would the French be in a position to try and reconquer Algeria to take control of the oil fields by force Mo mentioned the possibility of French troops being in Tunisia - might the French and the Tunisians make a joint move against the Algerians Perhaps Morocco might also be involved on the French side

That said would they really want to invade Algeria I think there are a lot of French citizens of Algerian descent living in France, and making military moves against the mother country might spark off a whole wave of internal disorder. Also, are they already getting enough oil and gas from their partners in the Middle East

But wouldn't it be better to be in control of your own supplies rather than rely on others

Or perhaps some sort of negotiated agreement be possible

(Of course, there's every possibility that the Algerian refineries might have been nuked, in which case it may be a moot point.)

[Legbreaker]

Where exactly is France going to be getting it's oil, gas, coal and other energy resources from anyway What reserves exist within it's borders and what can it rely on to be delivered each and every time it's needed
It's all well and good to say oil is coming from the middle east, but how exactly is it being transported. There's no way it'd be by pipeline up through Turkey and it's a fair bet the Suez has been nuked so you won't catch anyone wanting to sail through there even if it is still open.
Coming over land through Palestine or Israel is not likely to happen either so we're left with the posibility of a long voyage down around the bottom of Africa with all the attendant piratical risks.

That of course is just oil, what about coal, iron and other ores, and all the other things needed to support a modern society Traditional trading partners such as the UK and the USA are history, as is just about everyone in Europe, the middle east and as can be seen in another thread in a post about Libya, northern Africa.

To me France might have avoided the general war, but they're by no means unscathed. France simply has more of it's infrastructure and military in working order, but it's still got all the problems everyone else does regarding feeding, clothing and keeping the populace warm.

[Rainbow Six]

It's all well and good to say oil is coming from the middle east, but how exactly is it being transported. There's no way it'd be by pipeline up through Turkey and it's a fair bet the Suez has been nuked so you won't catch anyone wanting to sail through there even if it is still open.
Coming over land through Palestine or Israel is not likely to happen either so we're left with the posibility of a long voyage down around the bottom of Africa with all the attendant piratical risks.

Which is exactly why I'm suggesting the French might consider a move against Algeria to secure easier access to oil and gas supplies.

[Mohoender]

Interesting thoughts

There's a lot of oil in Algeria, which is just a short hop across the Med from Marseille, but there's also a lot of history between France and Algeria, so I have no clue how that might play out

Not a problem (accessibility will be) as France is already a prime customer for Algerian gas. My cousin is actually spending two-third of his time in a life base located in the middle of the Sahara and pumping oil. However, I would count Algeria to be facing a full-scale civil war and Oran and Skikda would probably have been nuked (they are the main oil terminal)

Would the French be in a position to try and reconquer Algeria to take control of the oil fields by force Mo mentioned the possibility of French troops being in Tunisia - might the French and the Tunisians make a joint move against the Algerians Perhaps Morocco might also be involved on the French side
That said would they really want to invade Algeria I think there are a lot of French citizens of Algerian descent living in France, and making military moves against the mother country might spark off a whole wave of internal disorder. Also, are they already getting enough oil and gas from their partners in the Middle East

We wouldn't put a finger in the Djebels again. It's like asking if US wants to conquer Vietnam or USSR get involved again in Afghanistan. Not a chance!! In addition, Algeria has plenty of youth to make your life hell and plenty with french citizenship able to carry devastating terrorist actions. For my part I consider that Morocco was nuked for being too suportive of NATO. Tunisia, however, is on French side and, may be and only may be, they can be running a few unofficial oil operations in the deep sands of Algeria. No need to invade, you'll just have to deal with constant attack from Tuaregs.

France getting oil from the Middle East is one of the inconsistancy of T2K (IMO). Why would you get it from there when you already get plenty from Cameroon and Gabon and some from Tunisia That doesn't rule out the French presence, however, as it is strategically more than important.

But wouldn't it be better to be in control of your own supplies rather than rely on others

What France would get from others would be bonus only (probably a good path for negociation and that would be the sole justification for the Middle East Oil). First, France produces some oil. Not much but that would be used only by the army. Second under T2K coal mines would have been reopened in France, Belgium and Saarland . Third and more importantly, what about the North Sea HMG still controls a few wells, you can expect that this is also the case for Norway (harder for Netherlands). And of course, France which has the planes, the warships, and the tankers would sit idle. They are not that stupid! Of course, their oil terminals on the Atlantic have been destroyed but one still exists in Marseille (I join a small Map). More important T2K nukes Ghent (why I still don't understand). Nevertheless, if you go with that France still has access to Ostende/Zeebruge (Belgium) and that is an oil teminal located right on the North Sea. Anyway, it wouldn't be that difficult for the French to build a new oil terminal at one of the remaining Atlantic Port (Bordeaux, Boulogne, Brest, Cherbourg, Lorient, Roscoff, Saint Malo...)

Or perhaps some sort of negotiated agreement be possible

That is definitely possible. The French letting Algerian pirates do what they please in exchange for some oil. However, as you say Algerians oil terminal would have been destroyed and that cannot represent much.

[Rainbow Six]

Thanks Mo, interested on your take on Algeria. I'd agree that there are a number of places along the west coast of Africa that could supply France with oil (I wonder what would have happened to Nigeria - I'd imagine it must have been hit by a few nukes in 1997 or 1998).

A Franco Tunisian alliance seems perfectly reasonable, but I appreciate that Tunisia might not be able to produce enough on its own to meet French needs. I do like the idea of the Tunisians operating clandestinely in Algeria though.

I would question your suggstion of a French move against the North Sea platforms though. In an earlier post you asked what would be the point in getting involved in a war with NATO...isn't there a risk that making a move against those fields might risk conflict with the British

Whilst I think I've made it clear in previous posts that I envisage the French interfering in British affairs, with a view to keeping the UK destabilised for as long a time as possible, I do think that it would be important to the French that such interference would be subtle, covert, and most importantly deniable. I really don't see the French wanting to get involved in a shooting war with the UK, and I don't know if making a grab on some of our oil rigs might lead to that. Sure, you can argue that the French military would be far superior to the British in 2000, but we're still a nuclear power and could cause some hurt to France (as obviously they could to us - but who has the most to lose)...that's partly why I think that whilst relations between France and the UK might be a little cool there would be a line that neither side would want to cross.

If on the other hand you are talking about the French taking over some abandoned British rigs and operating them clandestinely, that's a whole different matter...no problem with that at all. I also think any rigs in Dutch waters would be fair game - after all, France has already invaded Holland, so seizing Dutch oil rigs is only an extension of that.

Cheers

[pmulcahy11b]

With all that activity elsewhere, I'm not so sure an SAS mission in devastated Poland would be all that high up on the list of priorities...

Maybe they needed to rescue another badly-needed politician...

[Mohoender]

I would question your suggstion of a French move against the North Sea platforms though. In an earlier post you asked what would be the point in getting involved in a war with NATO...isn't there a risk that making a move against those fields might risk conflict with the British

Whilst I think I've made it clear in previous posts that I envisage the French interfering in British affairs, with a view to keeping the UK destabilised for as long a time as possible, I do think that it would be important to the French that such interference would be subtle, covert, and most importantly deniable. I really don't see the French wanting to get involved in a shooting war with the UK, and I don't know if making a grab on some of our oil rigs might lead to that. Sure, you can argue that the French military would be far superior to the British in 2000, but we're still a nuclear power and could cause some hurt to France (as obviously they could to us - but who has the most to lose)...that's partly why I think that whilst relations between France and the UK might be a little cool there would be a line that neither side would want to cross.

Very good points and I have to agree with them. I agree that seizing Dutch rigs is a better option. Still, talking of the line and cool relation there might be some ground for negociations that I totally overlooked. I can sea the French, despite their chilly relations with HMG negotiate several of these oil rigs in return for an access to a french refinery and for protection by the French military. I always had the idea of France doing its best to weaken UK just because the French are playing in its backyard. With what you pointed out I can see some serious reasons to negociate for both. For France it would be a less hazardous way to get British neutrality and for HMG it would be the best way to get the means to reconquer england quickly. Still Wales and Scotland can be part of a separate negociation. All that could lead to an interesting development and to a very bad news for the Dutch (much in the way of the Valladolid debate). Must be the wallon part of me thinking here

[Targan]

With all that activity elsewhere, I'm not so sure an SAS mission in devastated Poland would be all that high up on the list of priorities...

But it did happen. It is canon. The mini-adventure "What's Polish for G'day".

[Legbreaker]

I wonder what would have happened to Nigeria - I'd imagine it must have been hit by a few nukes in 1997 or 1998.

Payback for all the internet and mail scams....

But it did happen. It is canon. The mini-adventure "What's Polish for G'day".

True, but it seems very odd to me. There just doesn't seem to be any reason they should be there.
I suppose that's they whole point though - keep the PCs off balance and questioning what's actually going on around them.

[Targan]

True, but it seems very odd to me. There just doesn't seem to be any reason they should be there.
I suppose that's they whole point though - keep the PCs off balance and questioning what's actually going on around them.

Maybe they walked there from the Middle East theatre LOL. The SAS do love their long range foot patrols.

[kato13]

I attributed it to a thrice a year or so submarine transit between France and Australia of unique and/or critical items. Australia may not have had enough cargo to send back to France on one trip so they sent a four man team. Then they would have assets in Europe just in case they needed them. (To grab RESET for example)