Alternate History in Twilight

[GDWFan]

A Long time ago i ran a T2K/Morrow project type game using T2K V2 rules.
It started with a few prequel missions in the early war. Then it reallt started at Kalisz. The players were all SF type of guys, but the game was very challenging so it kind of evened out. I used some made up early proxy wars as the first couple pre missions. I ended up much later using Gurps Alternate Worlds to explain how the MP had originated. The campaign ended shortly after this revelation but it had a very long run compared to most games ive played.

This got me to thinking about the amount of forces comitted and length of the war. Using the GURPS books system for creating an alternate world it all comes down to the point in time where history deviates from the baseline history of earth, even tiny things can cause the shift.

So if you moved the deviation of history back to the late 70's or early 80's, and i don't mean outbreak of war but a different election result or action of one of the governments or action of a minor government. This could allow a new arms race or series of proxy wars somewhere in south america or africa,
It would allow newer tech to be introduced a bit earlier, or more drafting of civilians and positioned and hardening of troops.

Just some thoughts i had thinking about that game and looking the morrow project info kato has up.

[sglancy12]

So if you moved the deviation of history back to the late 70's or early 80's, and i don't mean outbreak of war but a different election result or action of one of the governments or action of a minor government. This could allow a new arms race or series of proxy wars somewhere in south america or africa,

The alternative TW2K campaign background I've been fiddling with doesn't follow the canon of v1 or v2, but it tries to keep as close as possible.

The big points of divergence is Gorbachev is assassinated by a conspiracy of Kremlin and Red Chinese reactionaries in 1989, blowing up his plane while he's on his way to visit China. Both groups see Glasnost and Peristroika as the real enemy, not each other, and use the "crisis" to mobilize their armies and crush internal dissent. China squashes the pro-democracy movement (again) and the Sovs crush their ethnic minorities and the independence movements in eastern Europe. That puts the Sovs and the Chinese as allies or at least neutral during the Twilight War.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

[Abbott Shaull]

Let's face it. All GM's have tweak this or that. Some more than others...So in reality they are all alternatives to the History listed in canon depending on version of the game...lol

[sglancy12]

Let's face it. All GM's have tweak this or that. Some more than others...So in reality they are all alternatives to the History listed in canon depending on version of the game...lol

That's a good point... I mean, is there any GM on this list who runs TW2K exactly per the canon V.1, v.2 or even 2013 Anyone

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

[Abbott Shaull]

I would say you would be hard press to find a GM who went entirely by the "book" with everything....

[Legbreaker]

Even I, who everyone appears to incorrectly think am completely against individual thought and expression, agree wholeheartedly that nothing stays the same.
Published materials are a start point, nothing more. From then on it's up to the GM and players to shape their world using whatever resources and ideas they want.

If all a group wants to use is the ruleset, or even just the concept, so be it. It's just a game and intended for nothing more than entertainment.

[Abbott Shaull]

Was I just struck by lighting Or quick some pinch me, this must be a season of Dallas playing.....

[kato13]

Was I just struck by lighting Or quick some pinch me, this must be a season of Dallas playing.....

Changes in opinion are always possible. How solid that change is can only be analyzed as a new body of work presents itself.

[Legbreaker]

My opinion has not changed. It has always been this simple however many people seem to have simply misunderstood.

All I've ever said is don't screw with canon and then force others to use the result. Use it as a base if you think your personal work should be accepted (and used) by all.

If you do change things, say so - don't attempt to pass it off as canon. Let others decide to use, or not use based on it's merits, not on the writers personal opinion "this is the way the T2K world must be".

For myself, I feel everyone here has made valuable contributions to the game as a whole. While I'm unlikely to use Web's "Thunder Empire" material for example, I can appreciate the effort he's put in and the quality of the resultant work. Same goes for anything everyone else has done.

The DC Group and their Czech sourcebook is an example of expanding on canon - it has not replaced what we know from the published GDW materials. While I don't feel it should be declared official canon, it is most certainly following the spirit of the canon arguement, and not even the most fervent of canonites should have any qualms in using it.

One more point - Please read everything somebody posts. Don't simply skim it and expect to be able to respond appropriately. This is where misunderstandings and bad feelings come from.

[kato13]

All I've ever said is don't screw with canon and then force others to use the result.

Just curious how can anyone "force" you to use anything.

[Legbreaker]

Perhaps "force" isn't the right word. Mislead is probably a better way of saying it although even that isn't quite right.

[kato13]

Perhaps "force" isn't the right word. Mislead is probably a better way of saying it although even that isn't quite right.

V 1.5 is simply a different universe. Same as V 3.0.

On a personal level I always follow the words of of my namesake

Absorb what is useful.
Reject what is useless.
and add what is specifically your own.

However those "what"s are different for every person so to me having more information available is much more important than how that information is codified.

[GDWFan]

Misunderstood

This isnt the argument that I was looking for lol
I more meant that what type of things could you go back and change delete or add to real history that would lead to a better continuation of gov plan, more fallout shelters, a longer selective service draft, and mainly a more built up military for all countries.

Im thinking assassins natural disasters election results war.

My best ex. would be the oil refinery attack in red storm rising, im thinking about changing the make up of combatants before the T2K history even alters.

[kato13]

This isnt the argument that I was looking for lol
I more meant that what type of things could you go back and change delete or add to real history that would lead to a better continuation of gov plan, more fallout shelters, a longer selective service draft, and mainly a more built up military for all countries.

Im thinking assassins natural disasters election results war.

My best ex. would be the oil refinery attack in red storm rising, im thinking about changing the make up of combatants before the T2K history even alters.

The DC group has graciously cracked the cover on a few of their plans and they have some pretty ingenious solutions for most if not all war parties (and I have only seen a very small fraction of the whole). Unfortunately we have to wait and see them all.

As for my game I never liked the MILGOV/CIVGOV split so after the first nukes in Europe, I had Senate pre approve deputy Secretaries for the Department Secretary position (in the event of their death) this nearly doubles the number of people in the Continuation of Government Plan and allows the departments to continue to have a leader even if the there is one death and the senate cannot convene.

[Grimace]

A time ago, which seems a lot longer than the few that it has been, I was working with the late T.R. (rest in peace, my friend) to come up with an alternative timeline along the lines of what you're talking about GDWFan. We used a lot of real world events, tweaked them ever so slightly the way they "could have" gone and ended up with a Twilight war that dealt with a bit more military build up than what occurred in regular Twilight.

Our main catalyst for initial combat was the real-world famine that hit North Korea back in the 90's. From there we used other things around the world...former Yugoslavian nations...Italy electing a borderline facist as a leader...stuff that seems really strange but was either true or was just a slight nudge away from being the truth.

In the end, we had a timeline that brought us to the nuclear armageddon that is in Twilight. Rather than trying to reinvent or twist the Twilight: 2000 history we just decided to make the game we were working on a "what if". A lot of work was done, but a lot still needed to be done.