Sawed off M79

[General Pain]

I must admit I liked it...

[Ramjam]

I have to say that would be a nice close range last ditch weapon if loaded with a M576 buckshot round.

The recoil might be a bitch but what the hell.

[headquarters]

feasible

would such a weapon work effeciently -or would the shorter barrel mean insufficient combustion to get good effect from the buckshot shell

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Well from what I understand of the ammunition, they use a two stage ignition. There's a small high-pressure chamber that ignites first and the gases from that expand into a larger low-pressure chamber and from there propel the warhead.
I think length of barrel makes no difference to combustion but only affects the range and accuracy.

[Legbreaker]

Well firstly I'm VERY concerned about the recoil. There's a reason there's a butt on grenade launchers....

Secondly, I'm worried the barrel being so short might not be able to impart sufficient spin on explosive rounds to arm them. I could be wrong, but if not, you're simply throwing very expensive stones.

I'd rather use a sawn off 8 gauge....

[Targan]

Sawn off M79s were mentioned in a book I read about the SOG in Vietnam so they definitely work. I know that they had a shorter barrel but I can't remember if the butt was sawn off as well.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'm basically trying to remember what I read in one of those Osprey Men-At-Arms books dealing with Vietnam, I think it stated that the cut down M79s were used specifically as a break contact weapon and were loaded with the buckshot round and not with any of the explosive types. What's the minimum arming distance, something like 14-20 metres or some such I would think that a radically short barrel would be a serious problem for what Legbreaker mentioned regards getting enough spin to arm the round.
And if I remember right, the colour plates in the Men-At-Arms book showed a US recce guy with a sawn off M79 with the butt cut down to resemble a sawn off shotgun grip just like the pictures posted here by General Pain.

While it hasn't happened to me, I've know guys who have been 'bitten' by the safety catch on the M79 due to the recoil, I think the recoil on the sawn off version would be much, much worse if for no other reasons than there's less weight to absorb recoil and you just cannot brace it in any way.

[pmulcahy11b]

They were also tried wired onto M-16s, something that proved unsatisfactory -- no mounting technique was devised that could bear up to the strain for long.

[headquarters]

last ditch

Well , in the situation were you would have to use such a beastly weapon cosnidring recoil and all , slight injury from recoil might be the least of your problems.

GP - do I smell a new fav sidearm

(Not for use against NPCs folks , such hyper cal guns are used top end PC vs PC arguments in our campaign ..)

I'm basically trying to remember what I read in one of those Osprey Men-At-Arms books dealing with Vietnam, I think it stated that the cut down M79s were used specifically as a break contact weapon and were loaded with the buckshot round and not with any of the explosive types. What's the minimum arming distance, something like 14-20 metres or some such I would think that a radically short barrel would be a serious problem for what Legbreaker mentioned regards getting enough spin to arm the round.
And if I remember right, the colour plates in the Men-At-Arms book showed a US recce guy with a sawn off M79 with the butt cut down to resemble a sawn off shotgun grip just like the pictures posted here by General Pain.

While it hasn't happened to me, I've know guys who have been 'bitten' by the safety catch on the M79 due to the recoil, I think the recoil on the sawn off version would be much, much worse if for no other reasons than there's less weight to absorb recoil and you just cannot brace it in any way.

[micromachine]

Cut Down M-79

I seem to remember somewhere that Special Forces (read SEALs and MACVSOG) used these little beauties as a break contact weapon. Operators are always tweaking weapons to get that little extra punch or save the few extra ounces. Sort of like a holdout pistol, it would be used in a situation of last resort.

[jester]

I have seen the same book, and the colour plates ie cartoons showed similiar.

Here is an issue, one due to recoil when using shotguns in the 12 gauge catagory sawn off to that level tend to blow the users head clean off, thus I call BS!

And yes its a single barrel, but the recoil and "whip" action will mess up the shooter.

And a generous GM giving the players such a weapon should be mindful that using buckshot or flachette well, there would be no arming distance so pooff the hostiles get all the negative effects.

[headquarters]

huh

I dont follow..

Do you mean to say that usingthis or a 12 gage sawn of with the same 5 inch barrel would take your head off as you pull the trigger

I dont know about arming distance for buckshot round for the 40mm - but I remember the 40 we used had a 10-14 meter arming distance for HE and other shells . ( German HK mountd on G3 rifle ).

We didnt have the break contact shells though, arent they like a shotgun shell were only the shrapnel leave the barrel

I have seen the same book, and the colour plates ie cartoons showed similiar.

Here is an issue, one due to recoil when using shotguns in the 12 gauge catagory sawn off to that level tend to blow the users head clean off, thus I call BS!

And yes its a single barrel, but the recoil and "whip" action will mess up the shooter.

And a generous GM giving the players such a weapon should be mindful that using buckshot or flachette well, there would be no arming distance so pooff the hostiles get all the negative effects.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

From what I remember the buckshot round for the M79 during the Vietnam era consisted of about 20-24 pellets in a sabot and because the round is not explosive in any sense, it doesn't require arming.
That combined with the high-low pressure ignition system of the 40mm round means the length of the barrel of a cut down M79 is not the same problem that it is for a shotgun

[General Pain]

I must admit I liked it...

So what kind of rounds are possible for this beauty (pc-killer)

Flechette,HE,HEAT(low yield),CS,nervegass,shotgun,slug,incendiary,illum
(did I forget any)

and how about the stats for said rounds

[Legbreaker]

Basically any 40mm round could be fired from it but as has been mentioned there's question over the probabilty of the grenades arming.
Accuracy would also stink (don't count on hitting anything beyond a stones throw or so) and recoil could well break the firers wrist.

All in all you'd have to be mad, or desperate, or both!