Converting Naval Weapons for use on land?

[Targan]

Far better to leave them where they are and if possible shift the badly damaged hulk with tugs to where it can be sunk in shallow water.

You beat me to it. I've been meaning to post a similar comment since this thread started. I think that for coastal (and possibly riverine/lake) applications it would be most sensible ground the ship with the weapons in place. Or if the vessel is still marginally seaworthy just anchor (or otherwise secure) it in place. Then you can tow it to another location if operational requirements change. The vessel wouldn't need to be able to move under its own power but it would be very helpful if it still had its generators working to provide electrical and hydraulic power for turret traverse and elevation, heating, maybe even radio and radar. Just look at the situation of the USS Virginia in Satellite Down. It will probably never move again but it utterly dominates that small section of coastline (and provides electrical power for its little shore community).

[headquarters]

scope of the game

everyone has their own take on the scope of the game I guess.

Converting naval guns to land based systems can be done - although it is demanding in terms of resources ,personell and expertise.

The German railcar guns of huge caliber during WWII had a crew of 1300 personell all told .(Cooks,mechanicstrain engineers,guards,spotterplane,spotterplane airfield personell etc etc )

Imagine setting up 20 companies of 30-50 men instead and having them dominate an area on foot or truck or horseback.
I agree that this would take you further than one railway gun in terms of controlling the land in a "survive in the ruins " game .But in a "warlord vs warlord scrap over who owns the ruins and the villages " the railway gun would be the bang to end the squabble .So different scopes .

It might not be efficient -thats very well.
But improvising such guns to be used on land could happen .

Us Norgies did it in 1940 at Hegra fort in Mid Norway -it wasnt a 8 inch battleship naval gun though . Smaller .It did help ,but sighting and firing the thing at the unholy agressors was a pain and not very effective.

Using AA guns or smaller shipboard guns to make emplacements or "technicals" would be highly cost effective on the other hand ( imho )

[avantman42]

I'm with Stainless and Avantman. Some of the smaller weapon systems might be dismountable and used on land, but the bigger guns and missiles are going to have to stay where they are.

The other point I tried to make is that the original post was specifically asking about the South of England, and the Royal Navy doesn't have any big guns on it's ships. The biggest is about 4.5"

It might be feasible to dismount a 4.5" gun, but I'd be surprised if it was worth the effort, especially when there are lots of land-based guns of at least that calibre.

You beat me to it. I've been meaning to post a similar comment since this thread started. I think that for coastal (and possibly riverine/lake) applications it would be most sensible ground the ship with the weapons in place. Or if the vessel is still marginally seaworthy just anchor (or otherwise secure) it in place.

Agreed.

[Rainbow Six]

You beat me to it. I've been meaning to post a similar comment since this thread started. I think that for coastal (and possibly riverine/lake) applications it would be most sensible ground the ship with the weapons in place. Or if the vessel is still marginally seaworthy just anchor (or otherwise secure) it in place.

That's more or less what I plan to do - anchor the ships (a Type 22 Frigate and a Type 42 Destroyer), with their 4.5 inch guns still in place, but strip off any GPMG's, M2 HMG's and 20mm oerlikon cannons and mount them on improvised gun trucks.

The gun trucks are a combination of Bedford 4 tonners, Stalwarts, and Land Rovers, all of which I've named (inspired by the gun trucks in Graebarde's 5th Dvn reorganistion document). They're being operated by the Navy, so I'm keeping with Royal Navy tradition to name everything HMS something.

So far I have three Bedfords - HMS Baldrick, HMS Bedfordshire, and USS Enterprise (latter commanded by a US Navy officer); two Stalwarts - HMS Unsinkable and HMS Stalwart; and two Land Rovers - HMS Kylie and HMS Danni. I may add one or two more (at most).

[kato13]

and two Land Rovers - HMS Kylie and HMS Danni

Cute. Are land rovers known for their "legs"

edit: I was thinking legs as in distance able to be traveled, but apparently
land-rover-engine-&-gearbox-specialists = l.e.g.s.

[Jason]

The Phalanx CIWS has been adapted for operation on land:

Centurion Counter-Rocket, Artillery, Mortar (C-RAM) System





Seeking a solution to constant rocket and mortar attacks on bases in Iraq, the United States Army requested a quick-to-field anti-projectile system in May 2004, as part of its Counter-Rocket, Artillery, Mortar initiative. The end result of this program was 'Centurion'. For all intents and purposes a terrestrial version of the Navy's CIWS, the Centurion was developed in record time, with a proof of concept test in November that same year, and deployment to Iraq in 2005. Currently it protects forward operating bases and other high-value sites in and around Baghdad and is deployed by the British in the south of the country. Israel has purchased a single system for testing purposes, and is reported to be considering buying the system to counter rocket attacks and defend point military installations, though the nation's investment in an indigenous system known as Iron Dome has hindered these efforts. Recently Raytheon and Oshkosh have teamed up to build a prototype C-Ram on the back of a diesel-electric, 14-ton Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck (HEMTT).

Each CADS consists of a modified Phalanx 1B CIWS; capable of firing 3,000 or 4,500 M-246 or M-940 rounds per minute; powered by an attached generator and mounted on a trailer or a Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck (HEMTT) for mobility. The HEMTT version is specially configured to accommodate the 7-ton Phalanx weapon, by removing the load-handling system; normally carried on the back of the truck; and fixed platforms on the vehicle to integrate the Phalanx. Like the naval (1B) version, the CADS uses Ku-band radar and FLIR to detect and track incoming projectiles, and is also capable of engaging surface targets, with the system able to reach a -25 degree elevation. The CADS is capable of defending a 1.2 km square area. The CADS trailer is transportable by C-17 only one at a time, whereas three to four CADS HEMTTs can fit on a C-17.

So, I guess it would be pretty easy for this weapon system to shoot down a mortar shell If so, that is BA. I want one for my next group of PC's.

[Kemper Boyd]

So, I guess it would be pretty easy for this weapon system to shoot down a mortar shell If so, that is BA. I want one for my next group of PC's.

Going to take about five minutes before it gets stripped for parts. Equipment like that aren't any good for an actual hot war.

[Canadian Army]

So, I guess it would be pretty easy for this weapon system to shoot down a mortar shell If so, that is BA. I want one for my next group of PC's.

It will cost you about $7.8 million USD, but seriously I'm right now working adapting the C-RAM for Twilight 2000.

[Webstral]

First let me say that I see the Twilight game as one of survival in the ruins after WW3 so I do not see many, if any, groups having the resources to carry out major projects until they have had a few years (or decades) to stabilize and collect what they need to overcome the subsistence survival that would be the norm for the first few years after the wars end.
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There are still many concerns before you could take a turret such as the 5-inch and mount it on a railcar. Naval guns are typically set up with most of their machinery below deck level, certainly the majority of the ammunition handling is done below the deck. So you would have to configure the turret to allow a horizontal ammunition loader rather than the vertical loading system normally used. Lots of work there and the need for qualified personnel to do it.
Then there's the power issue, most turrets are electrically powered so you have to also supply power for that and lots of it.
There's also the issue that many modern turrets have only line-of-sight aiming mechanisms and no indirect fire aiming devices as they rely on the fire control centre for aiming information or are remotely aimed directly from the fire control centre. It seems a colossal waste to use a long-range naval gun in nothing but the direct fire role - unless you can get some fire control teams trained up to counter that.

You would be better off removing the gun and its cradle from the turret and mounting that on a railcar and treating it like traditional land artillery but you still need to incorporate devices to elevate and traverse and load ammunition.
I really do believe, like avantman, that this would be beyond the abilities of most groups in the Twilight world and if it is within their abilities, it is not worth the resources to make what is essentially a fairly limited use weapon - once the ammunition is gone there is no way to get more so for example if you only have 40 rounds, it is just not worth all the time and resources to make a naval gun into a land gun. That's assuming there is even any suitable ammunition left at all on the ship as most of it is probably on still serving ships rather than on damaged ships awaiting repairs in a dockyard.

The time and energy would be better spent making typical land fortifications or making simpler weapons. In fact I think you'd be better served making simple MRLS launchrails to fire blackpowder rockets.

Nicely said.

Webstral

[Rainbow Six]

Cute. Are land rovers known for their "legs"

edit: I was thinking legs as in distance able to be traveled, but apparently
land-rover-engine-&-gearbox-specialists = l.e.g.s.

When I named the trucks I was just looking for something that was humourous in a tongue in cheek way (to me at least )

I settled on the name HMS Kylie because Kylie Minogue was a popular figure in UK culture in the 1990's, and I figured the name was something that might appeal to the average sailor stuck in the Plymouth enclave. I decided to assign it to one of the Land Rovers because the Land Rovers are the smallest of the gun trucks and Kylie Minogue is only five feet tall...

Once I'd settled on HMS Kylie, HMS Danni after Kylie's sister, just seemed kinda logical...

(I think most of the other names are fairly obvious - for those unfamiliar with British TV / culture, Baldrick was a character in the Blackadder TV series that ran in the 1980's)

[kato13]

When I named the trucks I was just looking for something that was humourous in a tongue in cheek way (to me at least )

I like it. If I was in the unit staff I would have likely been the one to have painted their figures of each of them onto the vehicles. My art skills are always enhanced when painting the female form. Bomber nose art was an early inspiration for me.

One note I think Danni has two 'i's. Dannii Minogue

Baldrick was a nice one as well.

[avantman42]

(I think most of the other names are fairly obvious - for those unfamiliar with British TV / culture, Baldrick was a character in the Blackadder TV series that ran in the 1980's)

You have to wonder if the crew of HMS Baldrick are known for their "cunning plans"

[WallShadow]

You have to wonder if the crew of HMS Baldrick are known for their "cunning plans"

So, when given orders to secure the "Baldrick" in its garage, the appropriate order would be, "Shut up Baldrick"

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Rainbow Six, do you know that the Bovington Tank Museum has a WW1 era Rolls Royce armoured car, one of the type as used by the Royal Navy Air Service (who were the pioneers of British armoured car use) Bovington is a bit of a hike from Portsmouth but with a small landing craft the group could sail into Poole Harbour (all the way to Holton Heath) then follow the railway line to Wool (2km from Bovington)
While other groups would probably loot as many of the modern vehicles as they could, I'm thinking they might ignore a WW1 vehicle.

I'm thinking of the irony (and the potential morale points) of the Portsmouth garrison recovering the armoured car from the museum, repainting it in RN colours and putting it to work (as it is maintained by the museum in working order for parades and ceremonial duties). Although a bit slow by modern standards, it's a very rugged design and with modern tyres would probably be quite agile (it was apparently a good performer in it's day with the tyres of that era)

[Rainbow Six]

Rainbow Six, do you know that the Bovington Tank Museum has a WW1 era Rolls Royce armoured car, one of the type as used by the Royal Navy Air Service (who were the pioneers of British armoured car use) Bovington is a bit of a hike from Portsmouth but with a small landing craft the group could sail into Poole Harbour (all the way to Holton Heath) then follow the railway line to Wool (2km from Bovington)
While other groups would probably loot as many of the modern vehicles as they could, I'm thinking they might ignore a WW1 vehicle.

I'm thinking of the irony (and the potential morale points) of the Portsmouth garrison recovering the armoured car from the museum, repainting it in RN colours and putting it to work (as it is maintained by the museum in working order for parades and ceremonial duties). Although a bit slow by modern standards, it's a very rugged design and with modern tyres would probably be quite agile (it was apparently a good performer in it's day with the tyres of that era)

Thanks Stainless, I've looked at Bovington a few times, but hadn't noticed that before. In my T2K World Bovington is the most westerly part of HMG's main enclave in the south of England and is occupied by Falcon and Ajax Squadrons of the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment (I had 2 RTR as the resident Regiment at the Royal Armoured Corps Centre at Bovington Camp at the time of the nuclear exchanges; the Regiment's Cyclops Squadron is also in the UK, but is operating in an infantry role).

The two Squadrons have around a dozen operational MBT's (including some taken from the Tank Museum) plus a number of other lighter armoured vehicles, making them the largest armoured unit in the British Isles in the summer of 2000 (in my T2K World).