Convoy's!!!

[Targan]

I am a locomotive engineer, and while my employer (who pays me handsomely) would not be fond of me to discuss operational matters in great detail, I do feel compelled to point out a few things.

Thanks for posting sic1701. We've had many train-themed discussions here and at the old boards over the years. I wish we'd had you around back then to answer questions! If you have the time and the interest, feel free to maybe look through the thread list and the archives and bump any old train-related threads that perk your interest. Specialist knowledge is like gold around here, IMHO.

[Targan]

Additionally, a modern diesel locomotive weighs a tad over 200 tons, and there are typically two or three locos for each train. Each has anywhere between 4000-4500 HP (some newer ones are in the 5000 range). An empty coal train of some 110 cars is about 3,000 tons including locos, and a loaded coal train is 17-19,000 tons. Manifest trains (mixed boxcars, covered hoppers, gondolas, tank cars, etc) are generally 5-10,000 tons. Intermodal trains (the long cargo containers, sometimes stacked atop each other, hence double-stacks) are generally 4-8,000 tons.

No doubt you would have seen the trains we have here in Western Australia for moving iron ore from the mines to the coast Multiple big locomotives per train, and each train stretches literally for several kilometres. They don't stop in a great hurry as they carry thousands and thousands of tonnes of ore.

[sic1701]

So if you're running at max power and doing 50 MPH, your fuel consumption will be just over 4 gallons of diesel per mile. Per locomotive.

I hope what you have in the convoy is important enough for that fuel outlay.

Regarding the best way to scout ahead, using a "hyrail" vehicle (a truck with small bogey wheels that lower from the bumpers to keep the truck on the track, while the rubber wheels contact the track and provide traction) would be the best bet. Run the train at 10-20 MPH, with the hyrail some 5 miles ahead to monitor track conditions, line improperly-lined switches, check clearances, etc, and radio progress back to the lead unit while 4x4s roam parallel to the tracks to provide perimeter security (beware that railcars are 50-60 feet long on average, so if you have a sizable train you may have plenty of room between your rovers for ambushers to mess things up).

Also, modern locomotives are very sophisticated and very dependent upon computers and electric apparatus to run. I question whether or not they could even run at all after EMP. The U.S. rail system may then be relegated to steam operations only.

I didn't work during Y2K, but I did see some paperwork in an archive that crew instructions were to stop the train by ten minutes to midnight on 12-31-99 and await the go-ahead from the dispatchers, just in case switches malfunctioned (a very much bad thing when traveling over them at speed) or onboard computers dumped. Everything worked without hitch, I am told, but I seriously doubt that EMP would be that forgiving. Maybe the special EMP-resistant computer chips from one of the early T2K modules could be used to get an EMP-damaged locomotive up and running; that's an idea for a story or two. Or, perhaps, the small electric locos used in mines.

And finally, an empty railcar is about 25-30 tons. A hyrail vehicle, even a sturdily-built one, isn't going to move one easily or quickly, and not without great power consumption. So the idea of rigging up a Kenilworth as a hyrailer and pulling a coal train isn't going to cut it. You MIGHT move a single empty car, IF you can obtain enough traction (the bogey wheels aren't powered). And let's see you stop, once you get moving. I've seen backhoes affix a cable to a car's coupler and gingerly pull it into place, but that, too, is very resource-intensive.

Hope this helps.

[kato13]

If you have the time and the interest, feel free to maybe look through the thread list and the archives and bump any old train-related threads that perk your interest. Specialist knowledge is like gold around here, IMHO.

I added the tag "trains" to this thread. (It is near the bottom)
You can click on that to see a few other threads I have tagged with "trains".

[sic1701]

Targan, I've seen pictures of those goliath trains...how do they keep from getting knuckles (i.e. broken couplers) Is it all flatland there Or do they get up to speed and just idle from there

If you want to find the train-related threads and give 'em a little bump, I'll see what I can do in terms of correcting or updating or expanding. Everything I've said tonight, and will say in this open forum, can be found on the Internet with a little looking either in open literature or on the umpteen thousand railfan sites (we call them "foamers", but we love 'em just like the Air Force pukes love the fans taking pictures from lawn chairs at the ends of runways; it's like our own papparazi...). Regarding certain operational matters, it isn't so much that they're classified top-secret like SIOP but that we can get into serious trouble if we discuss them, as well as jeopardize the ability of my employer to do their thing that pays my mortgage...and keeps my electricity going so I can get on the Juhlin site.

[Targan]

Targan, I've seen pictures of those goliath trains...how do they keep from getting knuckles (i.e. broken couplers) Is it all flatland there Or do they get up to speed and just idle from there

Australia in general is a very flat continent. It sits in the middle of its own tectonic plate and hasn't had any volcanic activity of any note for billions of years so erosion has worn away most of the tall terrain features. I guess that is why Australia has such a huge mining industry - most of the work of getting down through the sedimentary layers to the goodies has already been done for us by erosion.

In the Pilbara region of Western Australia where most of the iron ore mining is done there are a few mountain ranges (in name only, really they are more like hills) but they mostly aren't in the way and where they are in the way the rail lines rarely go over them, they mostly travel through cuts blasted through the ridges.

[weswood]

Great info Sic1701.

Do you have any opinions of the Going Home module you'd care to share As Targan said, specialist info is gold here.

[rcaf_777]

It should be noted that the US Army maintains troops speically trained to contduct Railroad operations, see attached document, it is my understanding that one unit would deploy to Europe, while the other would running operations stateside, Canadian Army also created a unit for the Canadian Army in TW 2000, I'll posted it when I find it

[Rainbow Six]

It should be noted that the US Army maintains troops speically trained to contduct Railroad operations, see attached document, it is my understanding that one unit would deploy to Europe, while the other would running operations stateside, Canadian Army also created a unit for the Canadian Army in TW 2000, I'll posted it when I find it

So did the British Army. 79 Railway Squadron is now part of the Royal Logistics Corps' 17 Port and Maritime Regiment is based at Marchwood in Hampshire. During the Cold War 79 Squadron was based at Moenchengladbach in West Germany.

There's also a Territorial Army Squadron, 275 Railway Squadron, RLC.

[sic1701]

I have "Going Home", but haven't checked it out that thoroughly. I will review it, though, and vet it.

[Adm.Lee]

As someone who knows some foamers (not that there's anything wrong with that! Nor that I'm admitting to every, you know, sat around with a camera waiting for a train, or anything like that... ignore the HO layout in my basement... ), I enjoyed the heck out of the "Going home" module.

I did make the PCs work very hard at scouting ahead, and threw lots of types of hazards in their path.

[Slappy]

OK. I'll dissent. I think you want to move the trucks very slowly, probably about walking speed. Why so you don't outrun your on foot security detail. Unless you have infantry in front and on the flanks clearing your way one MG position will ruin your entire convoy, especially if you're going 100kph.

Somebody lights up the second or third truck with several flanking automatic weapons. Chances are it jack knifes, blocking the road and maybe taking out several other trucks. Where are you then I think you're better off engaging those positions with infantry before the trucks are even in range. Have at least a squad up front 200-300m in front of the trucks, one on each side of the road if you can spare it and another squad on either side of the road, 100-200m away from the road. Have a final squad trailing the convoy by about 200m. If you can get a couple of hummers with MGs or ALGs to run to the aid of a squad that encounters resistence, even better. You'll need 2-3x this amount of troops to rotate squads. Say 1/3 of the time on foot, 1/3 on guard in the trucks and 1/3 at rest. Having two groups of ~10 men on horseback would also be excellent. One could ride several miles in front for long distance scouting or patrol neighboring roads and/or towns to get intel. You can travel at night if you like, but probably camping is a better option. I'd say you can make 20-30 miles a day. Now, this of course assumes that you have a company of infantry or better for your convoy, but finding them seems easier than laying 400 miles of rail in hostile terrain.

[Kemper Boyd]

OK. I'll dissent. I think you want to move the trucks very slowly, probably about walking speed. Why so you don't outrun your on foot security detail. Unless you have infantry in front and on the flanks clearing your way one MG position will ruin your entire convoy, especially if you're going 100kph.

If you try driving a truck at walking speed for a day, you end up using a lot more fuel than driving it at a reasonable speed plus there's a decent chance of engine failure over a few days.

Better to scout ahead and do some basic assumptions: if your convoy is large enough and moves fast enough, chances are that you'll outrun most bandits because they dont have a fast enough response time to take a shot at you.

[sic1701]

Agreed. I believe most maurauders would determine that a convoy moving slowly is just dangling themselves out as bait, hoping a marauder unit will try something so they can unveil some extreme firepower and take them out.

If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.

[rcaf_777]

I just found this on the MP side of the Forum it's a PDF document on the Cadilac-Gage Ranger or Peacekeeper to the USAF.

The Cadillac-Gage Ranger (known as the Peacekeeper with the USAF) was a (4 " 4) APC developed as a private venture to meet an Air Force equirement for a low-cost armored vehicle capable of transporting personnel at a high road speed while still retaining at least some off-road capability. The first Peacekeeper was delivered in April of 1980. By early 1981, 560 vehicles had been ordered by the US Air Force and Navy (most of the Navy vehicles being operated by USMC personnel). By 1994, 708 Ranger (Peacekeeper) APCs had been built for US forces with 20+ vehicles being transferred to Indonesia. In 1996, some of remaining US Navy/USMC Rangers were deployed to Bosnia for operations with (IFOR). By the late 1990s nearly all Peacekeepers-Rangers had been replaced.

I think these would excellent convoy vehicle and with about 560 in CONUS I think quite a few many of them along USAF and USN personel would assinged to convoy duty.