Motivations?

[jester]

What is the PCs motivations in the Twilight World

This is something that was discussed in my group. But, really, what is the PCs motivation to continue on To continue to abide by the rank structure <I must admit alot of players who do not like playing leadership roles do get tired of a new character comming in who is a zero calling the shots. Especialy since alot of times those who do play officers tend to be of the munchkin type> So really what are some of the reasons your PCs have to continue

Of course survival is one. But what else Otherwise you will realise that you fought for this village today. Tommorrow you will fight the bad guys and the village over the hill tommorrow....damn, thats kinda senseless. I'm just gonna stay here and live.


So, what are some of your characters motivations

[pmulcahy11b]

I hate to say it, Jester, but yours is one of those questions upon which a sourcebook could based!

[Targan]

During the European phase of my last campaign the main motivation of most of the American characters was to get back to the US. It just seemed natural for the players and for me playing the major NPCs that they would want desperately to get home, especially as by the second half of 2000 it was clear that America's war in Europe was pretty much over.

Once the party got back to the CONUS the motivations of the PCs and major NPCs in the party became more complicated. Some of the characters had a pretty good idea of just how ruined the USA was before they arrived home but some of the more naive characters were shocked at the situation in the US once they arrived home and became quite depressed.

Many soldiers were allowed to leave the military once they got back to the States but the characters in Major Po's group were never given that option. Po was a master manipulator and suggested (or allowed some to believe) that those under his command would not only eventually be allowed to try to find their loved ones but also would be assisted in doing so. He never made any explicit guarantees of course.

Fear kept many of Po's troops from trying to leave, especially the disgruntled ones. I have no doubt that he would have had them killed had they tried to desert (basically because they knew too much). Those in Po's inner circle didn't seem interested in leaving, I believe for one or all of three reasons: 1- power and Po's amazing ability to gather and project it; 2 - duty and the fact that one way or another Po was able to get things done; and 3 - the fact that Po owned and controlled The Blanket (a bizarre, possibly alien manufactured, artifact) which apparently could heal injuries, impairments and afflictions of any kind and may have even provided the user with effective immortality.

Had Po ever gone completely rogue (say, trying to make off with a large portion of the NYC gold reserves) I think some of his troops more loyal to MilGov would have at least turned him in or even tried to stage an assassination or a coup.

Obviously my campaign was unlike many "standard" T2K campaigns but I think the character motivations during the European phase would hold true in many if not most campaigns. The "grass is greener" mentality would motivate many soldiers to go to great lengths to get back "home", at least if only to see whether "home" still existed or had been turned into a glowing glass depression in the ground.

[Caradhras]

In my campaign, I wrote brief char backgrounds - nothing too clever or in-depth but enough of a skeleton for the players to then flesh out themselves with the help of events.

one player was an ex-con and was wholly self-motivated, another had a deep hatred of the Russians, there was a genial philosphical Canadian, an undercover Israeli, a Brit SBS with a sense of inadequacy. Basically, they all had very different motivations and had lots of trouble trying to work out what the hell they 'wanted'. Eventually they got bliss when they set up a base in Grenada where they presently are relaxing awaiting their next mission



One thing I have just thought of is one player was Black/Afro-caribbean origins and this caused all sorts of problems for the group whenever trying to be undercover or generally be un-noticed in the original camapaign zones. I am no expert but I was pretty sure that in Poland beyond NATO lines, 99% of the locals and WP forces would be white (maybe some Soviet troops of Asian origins).

[Rainbow Six]

One thing I have just thought of is one player was Black/Afro-caribbean origins and this caused all sorts of problems for the group whenever trying to be undercover or generally be un-noticed in the original camapaign zones. I am no expert but I was pretty sure that in Poland beyond NATO lines, 99% of the locals and WP forces would be white (maybe some Soviet troops of Asian origins).

Might have been some Cubans who had been on exchange postings to Warsaw Pacts unit at the start of the War

[pmulcahy11b]

Might have been some Cubans who had been on exchange postings to Warsaw Pacts unit at the start of the War

In one game I played, a fellow player was able to have his PC bluff his way several often into having Soviet and Polish NPCs believe he was Cuban. The GM ruled that the NPCs wouldn't know what a Cuban accent in Russian or Polish would sound like anyway.

[copeab]

Well, let's see:

1) Go home
2) Do your duty
3) Survive
4) Protect the weak
5) Rebuild society
6) Gain power
7) Go feral (neo-luddite)
8) Finish the extinction of the human race

[Adm.Lee]

This is one of the biggest reasons I want to run/play again. When I ran T2k before, we were all in high school or college, and the game was usually played without much reference to motivation or character development. Now, I want to try again "with grownups."

Having said that, in one of my college groups, a player had a strong reaction to my GMPC-- the NPC I included to let me inject information they should consider. I made up a German NCO, with a family in Bremen. That one player reacted pretty strongly to that, and really wanted to get that guy home.

That player was also the same guy who once dreamed of the game in real life. He saw his PC volunteering to stay behind with a widow and her child in a cabin in the woods.

[HorseSoldier]

Survival is an obvious short term, and a good fall back for any given scenario or gaming session.

For bigger motivations I think it works best to have the players (semi-in character) sort it out among themselves and the GM pretty early on in things. In as wide open a game setting as T2K there's potential for mismatch.

[Mahatatain]

Personally I would say that the onus is on the GM and the players to create characters with believable motivations and that part of this comes from the briefing the GM gives the players as part of character generation.

If you let players have a completely unguided free hand during character generation in any RPG you are likely to end up with characters with conflicting motivations. Possibly the worst game for this is White Wolf's Vampire game where very frequently you ended up with PCs with opposing motivations and this often resulted in significant conflict within the "party".

I therefore think that the GM needs to be very clear in explaining to the players the theme of the game before character generation. For example I am currently setting up a T2k game starting in the Ukraine where the PCs are NATO soldiers who have been captured by Soviet forces, served time in a POW camp and then freed on condition that they join an "Independent Ukraine" anti Soviet military unit.

My briefing to the players will explain all of that and will also outline that the theme of the game is that the PCs want to get out of the Ukraine and go home and that the adventures they will participate in will be the story of that journey. Getting home will therefore be an important motivation for the PCs and while it restricts certain character options (Ukrainian soldiers might not want to leave their homeland) it should hopefully ensure that all PCs have a reasonably common motivation and that the group makes sense together.

Just to be clear I'm not saying that the PCs should be restricted to a particular course of action - I'm just saying that if (as a GM) you have a particular direction you would like your campaign to take then you need to ensure that the motivations of the PCs are roughly in line with that. That doesn't stop players having control of their character's decisions but it does mean that you will end up with a campaign that makes sense.

It does mean however that the GM may need to reject certain character concepts during character generation and that can often be a problematic issue.

[Raellus]

In the v1.0 Rulebook- and probably the v2.2 as well- the designers suggested giving the players short and long term goals. This idea goes along with PC motivation. In my mind though, there's a difference. Are we talking about intrinsic motivation (from within) or extrinsic motivation (from outside) I think the line between the two can get a little blurry. I'm going to address intrinsic motivation first.

From all of the my studies into the human experience of warfare, it seems that soldiers throughout time and space have shared the same primary motivation to keep fighting, even in the most effed-up of situations (pretty much all of WWI, for example): for their immediate comrades in arms.

In my gaming experience, this is sometimes true. Unfortunately, when players don't really get along personality-wise, their PCs usually don't either. IMO, there's far to much Sgt. Barnes vs. Sgt. Elias (see Platoon) drama in most PbPs. This tends to undermine the band of brothers mentality that has been the primary motivator for soldiers throughout history.

So, since PCs often don't have that natural comradery that real soldiers in combat usually do, other things need to act as motivators. As a result, many games seem to really on extrinsic motivation (complete such-and-such a mission, earn such-and-such a reward). Warfare is rarely like that IRL.

[jester]

Rae;

In alot of units they do have clicks. People who actively hate each other. And on occassion fists fly. Or even subtle things which are also common like slapping a hand away if someone who is hatted asked for a hand over a wall or up a cliff or whatever. I have seen folks fall and land atop the SOB they hated and ride them down a hillside like a sleigh. Its been done on purpose too, then the reply is simply, "Slipped, ooops."

The whole lovely dovey band of brothers crap is a myth.


Now, in a unit it is weird as well. You can phuc with someone you utterly dispise. You may want to mess with them and even inflict light injury on them whenever the chance arises. But he is part of your unit. And thus like the younger sibling who is a total pain and source of constant irrigation whom you mess with, woe to any outsider who does anything to him. Its a strange world for sure.

After all, think about it. People of all kinds or personalities are working together under extremely stressful conditions. People are going to become irritated with one another. And basic issues will arise. Also, have you ever been stuck with the same people forever To the point you can't stand any of them anymore One little habit which was no problem before is now a source of great irritation That also happens.

Just things of human nature to think about.

[pmulcahy11b]

Rae;

In alot of units they do have clicks. People who actively hate each other. And on occassion fists fly. Or even subtle things which are also common like slapping a hand away if someone who is hatted asked for a hand over a wall or up a cliff or whatever. I have seen folks fall and land atop the SOB they hated and ride them down a hillside like a sleigh. Its been done on purpose too, then the reply is simply, "Slipped, ooops."

The whole lovely dovey band of brothers crap is a myth.


Now, in a unit it is weird as well. You can phuc with someone you utterly dispise. You may want to mess with them and even inflict light injury on them whenever the chance arises. But he is part of your unit. And thus like the younger sibling who is a total pain and source of constant irrigation whom you mess with, woe to any outsider who does anything to him. Its a strange world for sure.

After all, think about it. People of all kinds or personalities are working together under extremely stressful conditions. People are going to become irritated with one another. And basic issues will arise. Also, have you ever been stuck with the same people forever To the point you can't stand any of them anymore One little habit which was no problem before is now a source of great irritation That also happens.

Just things of human nature to think about.

There are also people in units who are universally despised by the troops, but do well enough and/or kiss the right asses to not get kicked out. She's people might be given shit jobs or constantly put on point in T2K. These are the guys you send to check reports of a minefield. These are the guys you tell to look over a wall to see if the enemy is still there.

You also have troops like I was in the Army -- you thought I was damned good, to the point of recommending me to superiors and early promotion, or you hated me and wished I would die or at least screw up enough to get kicked out. This was primarily because rank did not awe me, I refused to kiss ass, because I would tell you the truth sometimes to the detriment of myself, and if you asked my opinion, you got it, unvarnished (though perhaps politely). I took pains to make sure I did things right, even if the right thing wasn't popular, and that my troops did too. I could be your best friend or soldier or your worst enemy. Not sure where that would get me in T2K. It got me both respect and hatred.

[Raellus]

In alot of units they do have clicks. People who actively hate each other. And on occassion fists fly. Or even subtle things which are also common like slapping a hand away if someone who is hatted asked for a hand over a wall or up a cliff or whatever. I have seen folks fall and land atop the SOB they hated and ride them down a hillside like a sleigh. Its been done on purpose too, then the reply is simply, "Slipped, ooops."

The whole lovely dovey band of brothers crap is a myth.


Now, in a unit it is weird as well. You can phuc with someone you utterly dispise. You may want to mess with them and even inflict light injury on them whenever the chance arises. But he is part of your unit. And thus like the younger sibling who is a total pain and source of constant irrigation whom you mess with, woe to any outsider who does anything to him. Its a strange world for sure.

After all, think about it. People of all kinds or personalities are working together under extremely stressful conditions. People are going to become irritated with one another. And basic issues will arise. Also, have you ever been stuck with the same people forever To the point you can't stand any of them anymore One little habit which was no problem before is now a source of great irritation That also happens.

Just things of human nature to think about.

That's an interesting, first-hand impression. Were the incidents you described during wartime/in a combat zone

In a lot of my reading, there are indeed conflicting personalities, rivalries, and that sort of thing but they seem to be suppressed or surpassed by the bonds formed during combat. I really can't recall reading portions of any memoirs or small unit histories where comrades actively fought and/or undermined one another. I have read of tension between enlisted men, NCOs, and officers, though.

[jester]

YES!!!!

I recall one instance where after a patrol in hostile territory one not well liked person was trying to scam out of his task and was playing kiss up. <He often stole credit for actions done by others.> It ended up with a freind of mine grabbing my SAW, and ended up in a tense situation between my freind and this dude in our hootch. One with a SAW, the other with a 203.

Another instance, a character was taking more than his share of water. It was a regular thing. A time when we had 1 liter of water resupply a day. No one cared when he showed up with a busted lip. Other than a few comments such as, "too bad" or "tough sh!t" or "serves ya right."

Another time, a constant whiner who had a very light pack and always cried about everything. As a result, he ended up being a pack mule for the squad because we said so.

It is usualy the problem children whom get this sort of treatment. Your shirkers, kiss ups, slackers, theives and such.

But, other times, it is just a personality clash, which is on going and has caried over from months, years or in many cases the entire enlistment where things build.

And as I said, in close confines for months on end with the same faces, tempers get short. Or you just want to get away from them for a period.

And of course those bucking for rank by virtue of acting like they are some kind of boss when they aren't and never take initiative unless someone is around to see. Then they get blown off, which in turn they become pissy which often resulting in going nose to nose with words or further.

However, does this degrade from the mission Nope, that is put aside when it is time to do the job. You have to work together. But, you do not have to like each other.

I seem to recall reading somewhere, I forget where maybe American Civil War, or WWI, where a units history did not match its members diaries, or interviewed accounts and courtsmartial records. The units diaries had sections litteraly torn out. I think this occured with the French Mutiny of WWI and with some UK units in WWI as well.

One must remember. Commands tend to try and hide such things, promotion to the higher ranks is often political and if such occurances are reported, well that shows the unit and commanders in a bad light, as well as the whole morale thing for other units and the folks backhome.

I mean history is littered with things that were burried. Like, the black troops who were loading ammo on the docks of the West Coast of WWI at I want to say Lemore, there was an explosion and many of the troops were charged with mutiny because they refused to move the munitions for fear of it exploding. Or the LSTs that exploded in Pear Harbor in the preperation for the invasion of Siapan or Okinawa. Or, the loss of the ships when they were attacked by the German attack boats as they prepped for D-Day, the fratricide of the Airborne troops durring the invasion of Sicily. Generals hate bad press.