Mechanized Squad Changes

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah from what I recall you could squeeze a Marine Platoon with attach personel in like two Am Tracks in a pinch... Three would be better to give breathing room and addition ammo load, but that goes out the window at times..

[kalos72]

Whats this AmTrack reference...is that the PIG thing from Humber

[copeab]

Whats this AmTrack reference...is that the PIG thing from Humber

I know in WWII it was short for "amphibious tractor" and referred to a series of vehicles used to put troops ashore (and sometimes farther).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Vehicle_Tracked

I believe what he was referring to is this, a descendant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_Assault_Vehicle

[Abbott Shaull]

I believe what he was referring to is this, a descendant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_Assault_Vehicle

This would be the vehicles question. A battalion or more said vehicle could attached to Marine Division and then the vehicles are farmed out to the Battalion as needed....

[waiting4something]

I know in WWII it was short for "amphibious tractor" and referred to a series of vehicles used to put troops ashore (and sometimes farther).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Vehicle_Tracked

I believe what he was referring to is this, a descendant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_Assault_Vehicle

Yes, that's the thing.

[pmulcahy11b]

Whats this AmTrack reference...is that the PIG thing from Humber

It's common slang for the AAVP-7 these days.

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah couldn't remember the what it was. One of those things when Vehicle book isn't next to the computer...

[Webstral]

One of the reasons why it took almost 5 years that on paper the Army said had been done in 3 years. It part of the reason why reading the Order of Battle for some of the CBTs seem more cobbled together than the Divisions that fought in Desert Storm....

From an organizational standpoint, it would be very interesting to see what would happen if the balloon went up in a major way in one or more locations.

Webstral

[Abbott Shaull]

From an organizational standpoint, it would be very interesting to see what would happen if the balloon went up in a major way in one or more locations.

Webstral

Webstral, you know all to well what would happen. The idea of a Division that has trained together would fight together mentality would go out the window much faster than the 12 month it took for them to realize after Operation Iraqi Freedom...lol Task Forces that you and Eddie have mention would be the norm. Especially if we went to war with force organized in the Pre-Desert Storm way with reliance on Round-Out Brigades. Not a slam against the NG, for we all know there was no reason why some of the units had to repeat training they had only completed recently other than mistrust between Regular Army Officer and their misconception on what the train of the NG was back then.

The only Division that would be fighting as complete Division without major reorganization before they get to battle would have been the 2nd ID, 3rd MD, 8th MD, 1st AD, and 3rd AD. After those units the 82nd and 101st may be deployed intact. After that everyone unit will have so many different components than they had before the balloon went up, they wouldn't be able to tell they were the same pre-war unit. Much like that happen in 1939-1941, when a soon to be soft spoken General after being ask to send a Cadre to create a new division responded to the order with an remark he would be happy to send one, but he would need a Cadre sent to his Division to reform it. This was still when the US War Department still was calculating on making 300+ Divisions and part of the reason why only 16-18 Armor Divisions were activated out of several more that could of been, they were were suppose to have 2 Armor and 1 Mechanized Regiment of 3 Battalions. In the end only the 2nd and 3rd Armor survived that organization and the rest were formed into 3 combat command with 3 Armor and 3 Mechanized Battalions (ironically when all assets were add they looked like the Heavy Brigades of today's Army). While the other Armor Battalions were used to reinforcement to Infantry Division and to make independent Armor Battalions that would be allocated to Corps and then the Corps Commander would assigned them to individual Divisions as need.

Another thing to note, is that many of the Divisions in Europe from time to time would have Regiments and Combat Commands from other Divisions attached on the regular basis to either replace their own Regiment or Combat Commands that were not ready for combat due to loses. There were time when Division that was suppose to be in the rear for rest and refit would have one Regiment or Combat Command and the support unit there while the other Regiments or Combat Command would be detached working for someone else. Even the 82nd and 101st had extra Airborne Regiment attached to them from the start of the war. They were suppose to go to war with 2 Glider Regiments and 1 Airborne Regiment. By D-Day it was realized shortly afterward that it should be more like 1 Glider and 2 Airborne regiments. The Airborne seem the way to go since the Gliders were so iffy and some people wanted to go 3 Airborne and completely disband the glider units, but with artillery and jeep being deployed gliders only at that time, they still had function. The 506th PIR depending on the source you look at was only attached to the 101st, even though it largely ignore fact until sometime in 1945 when the 2nd Glider Infantry Regiment was finally removed and sent to Airborne school and another Airborne Regiment was attached as the 4th Infantry Regimental Combat Team for the remainder of the war.

Some other thoughts...

[Abbott Shaull]

Here is quick look...just off the top of my head...
in Europe.

US 7th Army, Europe
197th Mechanized Brigade (7th Army Mobile Reserve)
1st Mechanized Division(-)*
4-1st Mechanized Brigdae (Aviation)
1st Mechanized Artillery Brigade
1st DISCOM
4th Mechanized Division*
4-4th Mechanized Brigade (Aviation)
4th Mechanized Artillery Brigade
4th DISCOM
5th Mechanized Division*
4-5th Mechanized Brigade (Aviation)
5th Mechanized Artillery Brigade
5th DISCOM
V Corps
3rd Armor Division
1-3rd Armor Brigade (Armor)
2-3rd Armor Brigade (Armor)
3-3rd Armor Brigade (Armor)
4-3rd Armor Brigade (Aviation)
3rd Armor Artillery Brigade
3rd DISCOM
2-5th Mechanzied Brigade(Mechanized)**
8th Mechanized Division
1-8th Mechanized Brigade (Armor)
2-8th Mechanized Brigade (Mechanized)
3-8th Mechanized Brigade (Mechanized)
4-8th Mechanized Brigade (Aviation)
8th Mechanized Artillery Brigade
8th DISCOM
1-1st Mecahanized Brigade (Armor)**
11th Armor Cavalry Regiment
11th Aviation Brigade
VII Corps
1st Armor Division
1-1st Armor Brigade (Armor)
2-1st Armor Brigade (Armor)
3-1st Armor Brigade (Mechanized)
4-1st Armor Brigade (Aviation)
1st Armor Artillery Brigade
1st Armor DISCOM
1-4th Mecahanized Brigade (Armor)**
3rd Mechanized Division
1-3rd Mechanized Brigade (Armor)
2-3rd Mechanized Brigade (Mechanized)
3-3rd Mechanized Brigade (Mechanized)
3rd Mechanized Artillery Brigade
3rd Mechanized DISCOM
2-4th Mechanized Brigade (Armor)**
2nd Armor Cavalry Regiment
12th Avaitioin Brigade
III Corps
1st Cavalry Division
1-1st Cavalry Brigade (Armor)
2-1st Cavalry Brigade (Armor)
4-1st Cavalry Brigade (Aviation)
1st Cavalry Artillery Brigade
1st Cavalry DISCOM
1-1st Mecahnized Brigade (Armor)**
3-1st Mechanized Brigade (Mechanized)**
2nd Armor Division
1-2nd Armor Brigade (Armor)
2-2nd Armor Brigade (Armor)
3-2nd Armor Brigade (Mechanized)
4-2nd Armor Brigade (Aviation)
2nd Armor Artillery Brigade
2nd Armor DISCOM
1-5th Mechanized Brigade (Armor)**
3rd Armor Cavalry Regiment

[Abbott Shaull]

In Norway
Norway Command
10th Mountain Division(-)
1-10th Mountain Brigade
2-10th Mountain Brigade
4-10th Mountain Brigade
10th Artillery Brigade
10th DISCOM

[Abbott Shaull]

In Alaska
Alaskan Command
6th Infantry Division(-)
1-6th Infantry Brigade (Light)
4-6th Infantry Brigade (Avaition)
6th Infantry Artillery Brigade
6th DISCOM

[Abbott Shaull]

In Korea
8th US Army
25th Infantry Division (8th Army Reserve) *
4-25th Aviation Brigade
25th Infantry Artillery Brigade
25th DISCOM
I Corps
2nd Infantry Division
1-2nd Infantry Brigade (Armor)
2-2nd Infantry Brigade (Air Assault)
3-2nd Infantry Brigade (Mechanized)
4-2nd Infantry Brigade (Aviation)
2nd Infantry Artillery Brigade
2nd DISCOM
1-25th Infantry Brigade (Light) **
7th Infantry Division
1-7th Infantry Brigade (Light)
2-7th Infantry Brigade (Light)
4-7th Infantry Brigade (Aviation)
7th Infantry Artillery Brigade
7th DISCOM
2-25th Infantry Brigade (Light)**
2-6th Infantry Brigade (Light)**

[Abbott Shaull]

Where ever the XVIII Corps ended up at...
XVII Corps
9th Motorized Division(-)*
4-9th Motorized Brigade (Aviation)
9th Artillery Brigade
9th DISCOM
24th Mechanized Division
1-24th Mechanized Brigade (Armor)
2-24th Mechanized Brigade (Mechanized)
4-24th Mechanized Brigade (Aviation)
24th Artillery Brigade
24th DISCOM
1-9th Motorized Brigade **
2-9th Motorized Brigade**
82nd Airborne Division
1-82nd Airborne Brigade
2-82nd Airborne Brigade
3-82nd Airborne Brigade
4-82nd Airborne Brigade (Aviation)
82nd Artillery Brigade
82nd DISCOM
173rd Airborne Brigade** (Stripped the Airborne Battalioin from 193rd Infantry Brigade)
101st Ais Assault Division
1-101st Air Assault Brigade
2-101st Air Assault Brigade
3-101st Air Assault Brigade
4-101st Air Assault Brigade (Aviation)
5-101st Air Assault Brigade (Assault Aviation)
101st Artillery Brigade
101st DISCOM
193rd Infantry Brigade (Airmobile)**
6th Air Combat Cavalry Brigade

Notes...
*Units with HQ in theater waiting to have units filled up, being used as source of replacement for units already in combat....
**Units absorbed to keep Divisions combat ready

[Abbott Shaull]

Darn the tabs didn't work and I am to lazy right no to finish edit, but you can get picture if you look correctly at how it may have happen in 1991 if things went ape shit....