French Orbat

[Mohoender]

I'll add this as I did on RPGhost

I don't count them as weak but as I'm not playing the 300+ year after. I don't have that in mind. Anyway, in that case, it does make sense to have some more. Keep in mind, however, that France doesn't have that much of armor (at most 1000 AFVs+400 AMX-10RC) and that it has to overcome some difficulties. As a result, most of its military production (in 2000) would be used to keep the existing supply in working order.

If France retains control on limited oil, it also has limited means to get it from the Middle East as our commercial fleet is really reduced. I agree that it is incredibly powerful (by T2K standards) and it can recover faster than the rest of the world but not that fast. It has lost part of its military forces, nevertheless.

According to canon, most of the nukes fell on the coastal regions (and on the oil producing centers) and that would probably include Strasbourg (German border) as much of the northern region (Calais, Lille...). So, sorry for the canon but that cannot leave its military intact. Consequently, France will lose several air bases, a fair part of its ground forces (probably about 20%) and part of its navy (the ships not at see when the nukes start to fall). Actually, with what is said, it looses the Charles de Gaulle (under construction) and cannot build the Richelieu as its major Dockyard (St Nazaire and Brest) would be destroyed. That one is not obvious as Brest and Lorient might not be targeted (They are not major oil terminal). If they are, the Mediterranean dockyards will need work before being up to that kind of work.

It certainly has electricity but this is probably limited as I cannot imagine all nuclear power plants to be working. Many will be under repair but I think 2 or 3 are held in reserve at all time (escaping the EMP as a result).

In my world France retains an important foothold in Africa with at least Senegal, Gabon and Cameroon (Ivory Coast would have been evacuated). By the way Cameroon and Gabon are more reliable to get oil from. Sending troops in the Middle East makes sense (in a long term view), but when you need this supply fast, you take the shortest supply line. Canon never spoke of it but I don't think the Suez Canal to be open.

Morocco and Tunisia would certainly have survived also and ally with France. We have special connections with them (IRL) and both have little chance to get nukes as they don't hold Gas and Oil (unlike Algeria and Libya). However, they have valuable resources that can represent an important asset to France. In addition, France would have reopen several domestic mines recently closed for economic reasons (among them Bauxite, Coal and Iron). it also gets the industrial region of Belgium intact and expect the Saarland to be cooperative (as in the 1920's).

I agree that it has all that it needs to become a super power but if you give it too much, it will become one by 2005 (in T2K of course).

Nevertheless, France can fairly quickly become a major power: it retains a fair population (about 50 million people for mainland France and Belgium alone), it has a working industry and can get a full supply of electricity back quickly, it has access to oil (and other valuable ressources), it can use a good part of the wine business to produce ethanol for the civilians, it gets involved in Quebec, retains troops in Africa, has a base in Djibouti, controls New Caledonia (major nickel mines), retains control over parts of the Carribean with a working space agency at Kourou (useful to build a satellite network or keep yours working), might have close ties with Morocco and Tunisia, can build some with Switzerland, I wouldn't be surprised to see Italy, Portugal and Spain become ally rapidly (after all, Sarkozy is curently trying to build a Mediterranean Union), Israel needs a new ally and might turn to France also, France has a working (if slightly reduced) navy as well as some merchant vessels, it can quickly rebuild some kind of world trade... Indeed it is a major player.

A question so, if going to the Middle East, why not land with the FAR in UAE and Oman (easier and makes more sense).

[Mohoender]

Just a small add.

I made a dream: A world dominated by France Good luck guys

[Fusilier]

So, sorry for the canon but that cannot leave its military intact. Consequently, France will lose several air bases, a fair part of its ground forces (probably about 20%) and part of its navy (the ships not at sea when the nukes start to fall).

I guess I disagree amount the extent of the damage. France was hit the lightest... there never was an intention to remove France entirely from the map. Marseille simply may not have been targeted.

The French Air Force for example, are surely going to deploy to dispersal fields once the nukes start flying (well before the neutral nations are targeted). If France is hit with a very limited nuclear strike so I can't see many air units getting vaporized.

[kato13]

Keeping us in sync with rpghost

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boogiedowndonovan 09-17-2008, 01:57 PM I just did a quick lookover while at work. definitely better than what the T2k sourcebooks have.


I was not one who agreed with T2k canon said regarding Belgium, considering that over half the country is Flemish, so I like your take on the Belgians (7th Mech and 16th Division go to the Dutch). Kind of off topic, but do you know if the Belgian Paracommando Regiment split it's component battalions into Flemish or Walloon units Also did the Belgian Air Force and Navy also have Flemish and Walloon units



Back on topic, where do you have the fusilers marins, commandos marines and the 13e RDP

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TiggerCCW UK 09-17-2008, 04:13 PM Belgian para commandos - definitely someone I'd like to have on my side! They used to come over to Otterburn training area every year at the same time as we did our field assesment for the Marine cadets. We actually got to do OpFor for them one year. Really impressive unit, worked well in the field.

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[Mohoender]

I guess I disagree amount the extent of the damage. France was hit the lightest... there never was an intention to remove France entirely from the map. Marseille simply may not have been targeted.

The French Air Force for example, are surely going to deploy to dispersal fields once the nukes start flying (well before the neutral nations are targeted). If France is hit with a very limited nuclear strike so I can't see many air units getting vaporized.

I talked about air bases, not about units. As the bases are their, they are vaporised.

Why not for Marseille but then you don't deny France oil to whatever side you want.

Actually I could expect the French to launch a major offensive in Germany after the going home event. They would have had time to build up their military and you can expect to have a 2 million troops army rushing for it.

As I said, I'm not sure France naval base would have been hit.

Then if it's really the lightest, France would have send various missiles back to whoever targeted it. Several late nuclear attack would have been from France as I hardly sea the French nuclear arsenal to quitely sit while civilians get fried up. Anyway if that was the case, they have more than enough to make everyone else keep quite while they conquer Holland, Germany and Poland. France had about 500 nuclear warheads and that's more than enough to make your point in T2K after 2001 (using missiles on the Warsaw Pact, airplanes on Europe and subs on US).

[Rainbow Six]

Anyway if that was the case, they have more than enough to make everyone else keep quite while they conquer Holland, Germany and Poland.

One question.Why would they want to do that

I understand French troops occupying parts of Holland and Germany to secure a barrier against refugees. But what would be the benefit in then trying to overrun the rest of Germany and Poland A land grab Is it really worth grabbing

Sorry, mon ami, mais je ne comprends pas...unless you're referring to your earlier post about creating a dream World dominated by France

Personally I think that going by canon France has already become a Superpower in the T2K World, possibly the only real Superpower.

[Mohoender]

[QUOTE=Personally I think that going by canon France has already become a Superpower in the T2K World, possibly the only real Superpower.[/QUOTE]

I agree to that. but there are a few reason for France pushing it.

First France might certainly not remain a democracy and you'll have to get the French occupied. Anyway, in such time if the government just sit there you can expect the French to go for another revolution.

Then, you have some ressources to get from southern Germany. You won't have to worry about much opposing Forces and about ethnic cleanic (it's done)

Also, that would be a fun idea (and probably a politicaly appealing one) to recreate some kind of Carloman Empire. French have some drawbacks and if you tell them that you will create an European Empire with France at the center, trust me, they'll go for it. When French get miserable, they go to war (at least you get something to eat and some grandeur to dream of. How do you think Bonaparte made them move). Look also at the French national heroes: Louis XIV (a war monger that banckrupted France) and Napoleon I (a butcher that conquered Europe, killing probably 2 million people in the process and one the Russians are simply calling "Tyran")

Poland might be too much (I was just getting carried out) but there is a reason for it, nevertheless, Poniatowski (heir to the Throne of the Warsaw duchy) is French.

Finally, the country has the troops to do it and the ones to secure the conquered lands and it's open for the taking (Spain, however, bring back bad memories and Italy is too much of a mess).

Actually, as there is no more world economy, its collapse won't have much consequences after some times.

Seriously, I see France developping itself in Africa and the Carribean but more with a kind of state union. I would imagine that to happen in Europe as well. That might be the best reason and France might move in simply to make that happen, using troops to bring security more than to conquer. The conquest would be more of a political one.

One last thing, if France retains a navy, don't expect HMG to retain the working offshore platforms for long (just in memory of Joan of Arc). France would quickly have 5 or 6 carrier to rely on (Foch, Clemenceau, C. de Gaulle, Richelieu, PA-75 project and another one as I recall). + plans for serious landing ships already made.

Therefore, I agree that France was lightly touched but not to the point of remaining intact! Don't forget that it retains all of its major cities as well as all its industry and electricity can be put back in no time. If you don't target at least a bit of its military, you are doomed.

About moving troops and units around, I think France to be taken by surprise and I think it retains the nukes for a given purpose (make her point is a good one)

[kato13]

Keeping us in sync with rpghost

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Mohoender 09-18-2008, 10:27 AM

I just did a quick lookover while at work. definitely better than what the T2k sourcebooks have.


I was not one who agreed with T2k canon said regarding Belgium, considering that over half the country is Flemish, so I like your take on the Belgians (7th Mech and 16th Division go to the Dutch). Kind of off topic, but do you know if the Belgian Paracommando Regiment split it's component battalions into Flemish or Walloon units Also did the Belgian Air Force and Navy also have Flemish and Walloon units



Back on topic, where do you have the fusilers marins, commandos marines and the 13e RDP

Yes they do but I don't know exactly which unit is felmish and which is wallon (french speaking). That, by the way explain why only few air force units came to France (many are flemish speakers) and that is certainly more true fro the navy (all harbours are on the north sea coast after all and that is entirely flemish)

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Mohoender 09-18-2008, 10:29 AM

Belgian para commandos - definitely someone I'd like to have on my side! They used to come over to Otterburn training area every year at the same time as we did our field assesment for the Marine cadets. We actually got to do OpFor for them one year. Really impressive unit, worked well in the field.

I think it will split but I don't know to whom advantage. It has strong ties with the french foreign legion but it is strongly entitled to NATO I think. Belgium units are based at Salon de Provence and Solenzara


Actually you can be sure that the "chasseurs Ardenais" go to France and you can expect the Red devils to go to France (then Africa) and US/UK. Nevertheless, I don't think Belgian will fight americans as there is too much respect on the Belgian part.

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[Mohoender]

Just a small add

In the last post from kato it should read "I don't think Belgian will fight americans as there is too much respect on the Belgian part".

Thanks again kato

[kato13]

Thanks again kato

NP fixed in the original as well.

[Rainbow Six]

Seriously, I see France developping itself in Africa and the Carribean but more with a kind of state union. I would imagine that to happen in Europe as well. That might be the best reason and France might move in simply to make that happen, using troops to bring security more than to conquer. The conquest would be more of a political one.

I agree with that 100%. And personally, I prefer the game play options that a political expansion / conquest offers.

In my work on the UK I have the French goal being to prevent the UK becoming a threat to French power without open warfare between the UK and France.

To do so I have an independent Scotland becoming a member of the Franco Belgian Union, thus splitting the UK and allowing the French a foothold in the British Isles, whilst DGSE Agents would be carrying out clandestine operations in England to ensure that HMG remains unstable.

One area that has been making me think has been the presence of French troops on Scottish soil, so I like your earlier idea about the troops overseas being a volunteer force.

[kato13]

Keeping us in sync with rpghost

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Targan 09-20-2008, 01:15 AM For anyone who is interested here is a reasonably exhaustive timeline for the 300 years after the Twilight War according to GDW.

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[pow902]

Interesting orbat! I think TW 2000 France is a good setting for some more "civilized" gaming environments, certainly it deserves some thought regarding its impact on the world setting.

France would be in a good position to attempt to take control over a lot of oil and gas production areas in Libya and Algeria, especially with Tunisian or Moroccan backing, considering the sheer number and land areas the facilities are spread over it is likely significant portions survived whatever secondary nuclear and conventional assets that were deployed their way during the height of the war. With their strong local naval and air projection capability they should have little trouble securing some invaluable assets in North Africa, further strengthening their strategic position.

Im currently tinkering with a small campaign focused on a joint Foreign legion and Chadian strike on southern Libya coinciding with a air/amphibious attack with some tactical nukes on the shore areas, interesting area for some exotic desert hijinks and not entirely plausible I think. The main problem would be logistics I believe, getting the oil to the sea and back to France, though Im not up to date about french merchant tonnage, particulary tankers, and what might reasonably have survived the nuclear devastation and naval warfare of the period.
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silversurfer vaporizer

[kato13]

Welcome aboard POW902.

Glad people are using the archives of older posts.