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  • Farms in T2k

    Code:
    Farmlife for GDW houserules
    Introduction:
    I was inspired by ReHerakte's Post on Op Omega, 9th of May 2004 on the RPG Host about feeding the 7th Army from Europe in Norfolk. I thought that I could try to make a roughly made FFS ruleset for farming and agriculture. So thanks to the RPG Host board I now present my take on farming mainly for T2k.
    
    Table 1 : Techlevels and factors.
    TL               Leff               Gen              WCA           LL           eff
     0                0.55              4:1              0.50            2           1.05
     1                0.60              4:1              0.50            2           1.10
     2                0.70             10:1              0.60          2.5           1.15
     3                0.90             11:1              0.70            3           1.50
     4                1.00             12:1              1.00            4           2.00
     5                1.40             13:1              1.10            5           5.00
     6                1.90             14:1              1.15            6           8.00
     7                2.60             16:1              1.20            7          15.0
     8                3.50             18:1              1.25            8          25.0
     9                4.60             20:1              1.25            9          50.0
    10                5.30             22:1              1.30           10          90.0
    11                5.70             24:1              1.40           11         125
    12                5.90             26:1              1.45           12         175
    13                6.00             28:1              1.50           13         250
    14                6.00             30:1              1.55           14         500
    15                6.00             32:1              1.60           15        1000
    
    TL   - Tech Level                
    Leff - Output Factor/ha
    Gen  - Food generated per seed   
    WCA  - Weight coefficient Animals
    He   - coeff for peak season extra hand
    eff  - efficiency factor labor/ha
    ha   - 2.469 acre
    
    Table 2 : Crop and yield (Estimated TL:4)
    CROP                           kg/ha
    Corn                           1470
    Wheat                           868
    Rye                             521
    Barley                         1035
    Oat                             930
    Cowpeas                         287
    Field Beans                     808
    Peanuts                         628
    Field Pea                      1077
    Potatoe                        7362
    Sweet Potatoe                  4741
    Suger Beet                     7856    (8% exchange to sugger)
    Grassland                       461
    Grassfield                     1654
    
    Table 3 : Animaldata (output average per year lifetime)
    Animal                  Meat/yr          Grass/yr          Fodder/yr          Leather/yr           Other/yr       Years          WT          Main           Note
    Cheep                     3.3              250                ----                3.06               1.2           1+6            80         0+0.1           (1)
    Cheep                    31.8              300                ----               17.1               ----           1              80         0+0.1
    Cow                      22.7             1200                1200                5.31              2000           2+6           400         1+2             (2)
    Cattle                   99.5             1200                1200               19.9               ----	   2             500         1+0.2
    Steer                    33.2             1000                1000                5.22              ----           2+4           500         1+0.2
    Pig                      40.0             ----                 500               23.2               ----           1+5            80         1+2.5
    Turkey                   10.5             ----                  35               ----               ----           0.6            15         1+1
    Broiler                   1.0             ----                   4               ----               ----           0.4             1         1+0.2
    Hen                       ---             ----                   8               ----                2.4          1.2+4            1         1+0.3           (3)
    Horse                    18.2             1200                1200                3.60              ----           3+7           450         3+2
    Bee                       ---             ----                 500               ----                 40           ---           ---         1+0             (4)
    Fish                      1.0             ----                   2               ----               ----           1-2           ---         0+1             (5)
    goat                      2.3              120                ----                2.43            0.13/100         1+6            40         0+0.3           (6)
    goat                     15.9              140                ----               17.1               ----           1              40         0+0.1
    
    Meat/yr    - Average production of meat per year
    Grass/yr   - Average consumption of grass per year
    Fodder/yr  - Average consumption of fodder per year
    Leather/yr - Average production of leather per year
    other/yr   - Other production per year
    Years      - first number years to come up to production(except meat), other
                 number years of production in average.
    WT         - Wt of animal
    Main       - Maintence, the first number is weekly maintence the other is daily
                 care to get milk, feeding etc.
    
    (1) - Cheeps that produce wool will finally produce this amount in kg fabric
          (other/yr in average)
    (2) - Cows milk this amount in Liters (other/yr in average), accounted for 2 
          offsprings.
    (3) - lay this amount in kgs (other/yr in average)
    (4) - Beehive produce this amount of honey a avergae year, and need 500kg 
          sugger beet (8% exchange) in sugger to replace the hive.
    (5) - The amount of fish is set to 1 kg fish.
    (6) - Goats will produce 0.13 kg wool that make fabirc nad 100 Litre milk.
    
    Average occupation of farmer 
    (h/day): ha / (eff * 2) (agriculture)
    (h/day): acre * 0.405 / (eff * 2) (agriculture)
    
    Seasonvariation : 
    Winter : no agriculture, animal care add 50% time.
    Spring : agriculture * 0.50, animal care add 50% time
    Summer : agriculture * 1.75, animal care as normal
    Fall   : agriculture * 0.50, animal care add 50% time
    Antenna

    PS
    Gonna tidy the file tomorrow after a good night sleep
    DS



    edit kato13 this is the best solution for information with spaces layouts

    [code]Stuff with lots of spaces

    [/code]
    Last edited by kato13; 09-05-2010, 08:07 PM.
    SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

  • #2
    Farm Before WW3

    Lets say that this farm has 26 ha large area and has with following mix of crops

    26/4 ha as grassland : 461 * 3.50 kg =
    9 ha Grasfield - 1654 * 3.50 kg = 57890 that would give 17 cows, 34 cattle, 2 steers

    They would need 57200 kg Corn (as an example) as fodder from a field of 10 ha

    Meat per Year : 22.7 * 17 + 99.5 * 34 + 2 * 33.2 = 3835 kg * 1.25 = 4974kg
    Leather per year : 17 * 5.31 + 34 * 19.9 + 2 * 5.22 = 777.31 Sqre meter
    Milk produced : 6/8 * 2000 * 17 * 1.25 = 31.875L
    Maintence or Work(field) : 21.11 / (25 *2) = 25 min average per day
    Maintence (beef weekly) : (17+34+2) * 1 = 53 h / 25 = 2 h 15 min per week
    Maintence (beef daily) : 17 * 2 + (34 + 2) * 0.2 = 41.2 h / 25 = 1h + 40 min per day

    All isn't just meat...

    Potatoes to the meat
    lets say that every meal counted as one meal per day has 1 kg meat and 1.5 kg potatoes.

    7362 * 3.5 = 25767 per ha and we need for a balance on this 5348 *1.5

    a field llarge as 0.31 ha of potaotes.

    This would give us a normal daily food (2L milk, 1 kg meat, 1.5 kg potaotes)

    4974 meals consisting of meat
    4974 meals consisting of potatoes
    9948 L of fluid to food

    Can feed 13.6 men per year and the work per day as an average 2 h 25min
    And we have farmed 25.81 ha

    24929 L of milk to produce cream, cheese etc
    Last edited by Antenna; 09-05-2010, 07:38 PM.
    SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

    Comment


    • #3
      Postwar farm TL 3

      same farm as above.

      26/4 = 6.5 grassland 461 * 0.9 * 6.5 = 414.9 kg
      9 ha Grassfield 1654 * 0.9 * 9 = 1488.6 kg +414.9 = 16094 kg

      16094 kg corn as fodder -> 9.85 ha

      4 cows, 8 cattle, 2 steers

      meat per year : (22.7 * 4 + 99.5 *8 + 33.2 *2 ) * 0.70 = 662.74 kg
      leather per year : 5.31 * 4 + 19.9 * 8 + 5.22 * 2 = 190.88 Square meter
      milk Per year : 8000 L

      a normal meal per day : 0.5 kg meat, 2 kg potatoes, 2 L milk

      1325 meals

      Potatoes : 0.26 ha

      this lot can feed 3.6 person per year with food

      and uses 17.1 h per day of maintence for the fields
      and uses 9.7 h per day as an average messure
      SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

      Comment


      • #4
        Conclussion :

        Prewar farm that can be handled by 1 person can be around 75 ha and can feed 40.8 men

        Postwar farm can be handled by 6 persons with long days and be around 75 ha and can feed 10.8 men

        Note postwar is at TL 3 that is around 1800 AD

        Antenna
        Last edited by Antenna; 09-05-2010, 08:58 PM.
        SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

        Comment


        • #5
          First let me say I LOVE the work here! Its the type of detail I couldnt dream of working up.

          Secondly let me say that I guess we are all screwed because the ENTIRE island of Manhattan, all 6000HA worth turned farmland and I am only feeding 800 people!

          6000 HA / 75 HA = 80 farms feeding 10 men each

          DO NOT want to be negative at all about all this damn hard work but, are we sure those numbers are right

          I was using a fairly low number and figuring each acre could feed between 3-10 people....
          "Oh yes, I WOOT!"
          TheDarkProphet

          Comment


          • #6
            It seems to me that the numbers don't quite add up. 1.5kgs of potatoes per person per day Ok, I'm guessing that probably includes other vegetables as well.
            Also, a simple backyard vegetable patch can feed a small family quite well - there's certainly no need for acres of land. Also, several crops can be grown on the same ground throughout the year.
            Admittedly meat requires a bit more space than carrots and peas, but a single cow produces a LOT of useful protein beyond just beef (brains, tongue, liver, etc).
            Waste plant material (what's left of the peas after havesting for example) could be fed to animals further increasing the yeild from the area. Waste animal product likewise can be used to fertilise plants, again increasing yeild for fairly minimal effort.
            If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

            Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

            Mors ante pudorem

            Comment


            • #7
              Oki, I used the worst case scenario when I made the Postwar farm around 1799 AD so you see that there would be hope that you might could side for a higher TL 4 to 6 depending on different areas of the world. TL 3 is preindustrialization

              25 ha
              TL 4 1900 AD - 6.8 hours per day to produce 5.2 meals per day
              TL 5 1930 AD - 5.0 hours per day to produce 8.4 meals per day
              TL 6 1950 AD - 3.2 hours per day to produce 13 meals per day

              The farms is the same as before I just don't show the calculus here =)

              Why time changes in this Statistical formulas, explanation is that level of mechanization get higher. A machine does instead what many men did before.
              Why the yield gets higher, modern pesticides and newer crops from research stations.
              Instead of pointing on a machine or pestecide the time won and higher yield is messured with Tech Levels

              Antenna
              Last edited by Antenna; 09-05-2010, 11:17 PM.
              SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                It seems to me that the numbers don't quite add up. 1.5kgs of potatoes per person per day Ok, I'm guessing that probably includes other vegetables as well.
                Well, I didn't make a menu for the farms just one simple protein source and one veggie source.
                Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                Also, a simple backyard vegetable patch can feed a small family quite well - there's certainly no need for acres of land. Also, several crops can be grown on the same ground throughout the year.
                Admittedly meat requires a bit more space than carrots and peas, but a single cow produces a LOT of useful protein beyond just beef (brains, tongue, liver, etc).
                Waste plant material (what's left of the peas after havesting for example) could be fed to animals further increasing the yeild from the area. Waste animal product likewise can be used to fertilise plants, again increasing yeild for fairly minimal effort.
                Home gardening aint made by the same technology as My first example on postwar farm (1800 AD)

                Antenna
                SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kalos72 View Post
                  First let me say I LOVE the work here! Its the type of detail I couldnt dream of working up.

                  Secondly let me say that I guess we are all screwed because the ENTIRE island of Manhattan, all 6000HA worth turned farmland and I am only feeding 800 people!

                  6000 HA / 75 HA = 80 farms feeding 10 men each

                  DO NOT want to be negative at all about all this damn hard work but, are we sure those numbers are right

                  I was using a fairly low number and figuring each acre could feed between 3-10 people....
                  If you use TL 5 Farm you would see that 6000 / 25 * 8.4 meals (2016 meals per day)

                  Also then it depends on what you have on your farm

                  Antenna

                  Antenna
                  SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
                  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Perhaps I am not understanding your calculations with this, I will reexamine in the AM.

                    But I THINK your saying that if I change my TL to 5, I can feed 2000 people with 6000 hectares or land. the entire island of Manhattan, NYC. Cannon has 100000 people living there... /gulp
                    "Oh yes, I WOOT!"
                    TheDarkProphet

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kalos72 View Post
                      Perhaps I am not understanding your calculations with this, I will reexamine in the AM.

                      But I THINK your saying that if I change my TL to 5, I can feed 2000 people with 6000 hectares or land. the entire island of Manhattan, NYC. Cannon has 100000 people living there... /gulp
                      First of all. The examples of farms that I presented here has cattle, cows and steers.

                      For NYC cannon you probably would just farm veggies etc.

                      A TL 5 potatoe farm would give a yield for a 25 ha farm 275,000 kg of potatoes
                      The thing with meat is that you loose energy to transform "veggies" to protein/meat the farms I made was made of 1-2% potatoes rest went to cattle etc

                      Antenna
                      SISU - the ability to show the warrior inside you in the right moment
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      SISUKNIPPEN - many of those with SISU

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Don't forget though that scavenging forms a large part of what's supporting those 100,000 people. Even several years after the war there's likely to be a lot of preserved food squirrelled away in kitchens, resturaunts, cafeterias, vending machines and a thousand other places. Scavenging is probably considered a respectable profession by many city dwellers.
                        If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                        Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                        Mors ante pudorem

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's also worth pointing out that you do not need to grow some vegetables in a traditional farm plot.
                          As was mentioned in a post some time back by I think Graebarde, you can grow potatoes in old tyres that have been filled with suitable soil and then stack them on top of each other. You don't have to have a field for cultivation, you can grow them in this manner on any piece of ground that is not suited to farming.
                          Some bean vines (and grape vines) can be encouraged to grow over any sort of trellis you set up with the potential to add some shade to an area if you have them climb up a suitable frame.
                          "Glasshouses" can be easily made from plastic pipe and plastic sheeting.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
                            Don't forget though that scavenging forms a large part of what's supporting those 100,000 people. Even several years after the war there's likely to be a lot of preserved food squirrelled away in kitchens, resturaunts, cafeterias, vending machines and a thousand other places. Scavenging is probably considered a respectable profession by many city dwellers.
                            And fishing in the Hudson and East Rivers and nearby open water. Line fishing, netting, shellfish collection, even maybe small scale fish farming.
                            sigpic "It is better to be feared than loved" - Nicolo Machiavelli

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              OK I was just using my stats as an example....no need to debate that here.

                              Lets take Norfolk as the 40000 US Troops arrived for example...how many hectares of land would MILGOV need to support them
                              "Oh yes, I WOOT!"
                              TheDarkProphet

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