NA Infantry Formations

[kalos72]

So in the URBAN GUERILLA module they talk about infantry formations taking upwards of 200% casualties.

How do you think those formations are set up Do they just wade into the opposing force with inferior weapons and just over run them

I am trying to envision the type of unit some might put together just to increase their numbers. Ballistic shields to close and then hand to hand with machetes or something

Whats the lowest type of organized infantry you can envision in T2K

[Webstral]

I suspect that New American infantry formations are organized along lines that would be very familiar to American soldiers. Local adaptations will be necessary due to equipment, manpower, and circumstances. However, given the strong influence the US Army and USMC are likely to have on the organization, the light formations probably are organized more-or-less along US Army lines. The armored car formations probably are based on the three-vehicle or four-vehicle platoon model with three platoons and a headquarters section of two vehicles making a company.

Manpower shortages being what they are, even New America probably tries something more sophisticated than human waves. The so-called Big Bad One of Urban Guerilla is supposed to be a superior formation.

Two hundred percent casualties certainly is a high number, but it doesn't necessarily indicate that the unit is used without any regard for its troops. This unit has been in action for some time. One percent casualties per day of engagement means that in two hundred days of engagement the unit has suffered two hundred percent casualties. If the formation has been fighting for eighteen months, this is enough time for the Big Bad One to have been involved in a large number of engagements resulting in one percent casualties, plus enough time to be rotated to the rear to absorb replacements. A few big fights might cost the formation three or ten percent casualties, after which time it would absorb replacements. A hardened core of NCOs and company grade officers would emerge from this kind of treatment.

Bear in mind that it's the FNG who is at greatest risk. A seasoned platoon sergeant will have a lot of new privates shot out from under his supervision when a unit is constantly moving between combat and refit over the course of several months. Urban combat results in a high turnover of personnel. Just ask Sixth German Army.

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[Abbott Shaull]

One has to remember the NA Infantry were general made up of basic non-citizens or citizens with fewer right trying to make their way up. Think of the so called Color Regiments of the Civil War era. The few of troops rose above the rank of Platoon Sergeant, First Sergeant, and Sergeant Major. These Regiments were usually commanded by a white officer and his staff. Units below if there were enough able body junior officer willing to commit suicide they sent to these units to command Companies and the Company Staff (back then Platoons weren't used like they were today, they usually had 1 1st Lt and if lucky 2 2nd Lt to command the two platoons that they operated with back then). Otherwise the First Sergeant and his junior Sergeants were left in charge of Company, with maybe a lucky NCO who got promoted to be Lt or even Captain if they were able to run tight Company without any white officer supervision.

Movie Buffalo Soldier is the one example that comes to mind.

The NA put a new twist on this as they used their Infantry, Artillery, and Cavalry units of Thirds and Seconds more or less an cannon fodder as they took their urban respawn outward from their power base. Much like the Roman did back in their Empire heyday they entice people to join them with offers of moving up the ladder in Citizenship. On the down side, if you survive and did raise in standing, you were very lucky and now are Senior Sergeant or unlucky you were mangled up pretty bad and now you are left on your own get by.

Some of the battalions would take care of their own who couldn't take to the field as best as possible by finding jobs people could do within the Battalion back at Base Camp such as cook, armorer, and other misc jobs...

The Senior NCOs and the few Junior Officer from the ranks may have rose into the next bracket above too begrudgingly.

Webster does bring up a good point. There will be a time when getting new recruits will start to drop off. They have stated in the book it is tough to find enough First to send in take Battalion and Company command level positions with these units. Up to then many of these First volunteered to led these troop knowing that it was basically suicide due to how these troops were used. With that said it would be hard press to find limited Battalion Command component and maybe Captain who were First by birth in command at company levels. Many of the Companies though were left to senior NCO who were Seconds and Thirds or maybe a newly minted Lt with their upgrade in citizenship as a First or Second leading them a Company.

As for organization since the leadership of the Defense Force is an ex-paratrooper. I would suspect they would follow the Light/Air Assault/Airborne Battalion organization as close as possible. A unit of Thirds would be luck to have shotguns mostly with some hunting rifle and maybe a military piece of equipment here and there. A unit of Seconds would have more Police and Military hardware, but it will still be dated. A unit of First would have the best of best equipment in hand and would be more recognizable as military force. As threat factors all the units are dangers and don't sell Thirds or Second short, and don't take a unit of First too lightly either (even if they usually the last units committed).

[Webstral]

According to Urban Guerilla, the First Regiment of Thirds (Big Bad One) enjoys the luxury of a waiting list for enlisted Thirds and white officers. This formation apparently is the real deal. Other regiments of Thirds are of lesser quality. There's also an artillery outfits of Thirds that is quite good.

It would be interesting to know what kind of equipment the FRT uses. If the New Americans equip the FRT in accordance with their philosophy, then the Thirds are using shotguns and hunting rifles. It would be interesting to know whether they have some submachine guns, machine guns, grenade launchers, mortars, etc. It also would be interesting to have a look at their tactics. The FRT operates in developed territory. Given their weapons and the nature of the terrain, I wonder if the FRT fights like the armies of the night: maneuver under cover followed by close-in assault that ends in hand-to-hand combat. Daylight operations might be a variation on this theme, with riflemen providing sniper and covering fire while the assault force moves into position. Do the FRT have grenades

On a personal note, I find it a shame such a high-quality formation works for the bad guys. This means they might have to be defeated in combat and perhaps even destroyed--unless someone can manage some sort of political action that defeats the will of the New Americans in western central Florida to fight. Ah, what a shame!

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[Abbott Shaull]

I am sure the FRT gets to keep most of the loot they captured to help equip the Regiment. One of the thing was when it was organized it could pick and choose who they wanted, and being one better trained units of them. Yet, still they have only so many new recruits.

[kalos72]

The module does tend to imply that they really get the sh*t end of the stick for most things. Equipment would be my biggest question really...

As for the most basic infantry for an organized settlement, would they be organized along military lines just equipped with inferior weapons and support most likely

[Webstral]

I'm sure it depends from place to place. However, the Army, Marines, and most police have certain organizational concepts in common. So many men equals a fire team, which is the smallest unit in an organization. The fire team can be 2-5, depending on a variety of factors. Two to three teams equals a squad. Two to four squads comprise a platoon. Two to four platoons equals a company, and so on. Various types of platoons (to the degree that there are various types in a given militia) combine to make a company, etc.

The modern military model has a lot of advantages in that the wheel has already been invented. Ditto the American police model(s), which bears some similarities. The rule of thumb is that each level of command controls two to four subordinate units. This is considered about what a given commander can handle under combat stress.

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[kalos72]

Considering how firearms are going to be some what rare after awhile, at least the most common ones we use today, I can see people going back to bows/crossbows and shield and sword.

I like the idea of a line of ballistic shields coming at you, the loud thunderous "stomp" as they inch closer and the hoot and hollering coming from the line as they get close enough to break ranks and close for hand to hand combat.

Against a poorly armed, poorly trained average group it could come down to that no

[Abbott Shaull]

Wouldn't say the NA units went that far, but yeah like I stated with the Local NA Commander being a former Paratrooper there would be lot influence from the Light Infantry/Airborne type units.

With that said of the Regiments of the Third only the FRT has anything close to having heavy weapons that are found in the various Regiments of the First and even quite comparable to the Regiments of Seconds. Like many locales I am sure they absorb lot of Police and what every weapons they could get out of local armories.

One of those things about Urban area. Carrying large caliber arms and heavy weapons can be drawback at times. Especially places with lot of rubble. Think WWII when depending on what type of unit and where they were, at times Sub-Machine guns work better than other long arms. Same with shotguns. The one disadvantage is when unit armed with limited long arms has to assault a dug in positions, well you get lot of people not making it home from the assault units. On a plus side, choke points means very limited force can hold a very large area with a few well place snipers and Machine guns.

I believe most of the Artillery that was used was home-made rockets on home made launchers and home made mortars. I do remember the Artillery Regiments of the Thirds were largely lucky to have shotguns and whatever mortars and rocket launchers they had.

One of the thing is the Thirds would be holding and position on the outside fringes. The Seconds would be used as second line defense and patrolling areas where Seconds and Thirds live. While the Firsts were main patrol force, rapid reaction force, and last line of defense before anyone got to the center of power.

As for the question if they would be armed with Grenades. If you have access to the Free City of Krakow and Warsaw module. The Units of the Firsts would be like the Krakow ORMO as reference for the how First would be organized and weapons were distributed. Warsaw Module the Baron forces and 10th Sov GTD would give you some idea how weapons could be distributed. While the Thirds would resemble mix bag of the remaining militias of Warsaw. Of course, without saying they would weapons found in the US military and police forces, and weapons that could of been found in civilian hands. On a side note with the original time line there were still plenty collector who had legally and otherwise collect weapons that could be easy enough turned fully auto. The Thirds would be armed with weapon that would now be classified as Personal Defense weapons too. Armed with various pistols for some it would be their only weapon, while others it would be a backup.

Just some thoughts.

[Abbott Shaull]

Considering how firearms are going to be some what rare after awhile, at least the most common ones we use today, I can see people going back to bows/crossbows and shield and sword.

I like the idea of a line of ballistic shields coming at you, the loud thunderous "stomp" as they inch closer and the hoot and hollering coming from the line as they get close enough to break ranks and close for hand to hand combat.

Against a poorly armed, poorly trained average group it could come down to that no

Would be interesting and in many cases this would be probably the way to move a unit forward. On the other hand a well place Grenade, rocket/mortar barrage will tear them apart. Even a well trained archery unit could tear a unit that not trained in the old Roman formation here troops behind the first line would hold and interlock shield above their head protect the force below.

I am sure some of the Firsts units and even some Seconds and Thirds that had served as Police Officers would know something about this.

again just some thoughts.

[kalos72]

Thats true, a well placed grenade or IED would wreck that close formation pretty easily.

I wish they went into more detail about that cell's organization and equipment, I would love to see those outlines!

[Abbott Shaull]

Even a well place Machine gun would cut them to ribbon. It part of the reason why swords aren't used on the modern battlefield like they used to be.

[HorseSoldier]

The module does tend to imply that they really get the sh*t end of the stick for most things. Equipment would be my biggest question really...

As for the most basic infantry for an organized settlement, would they be organized along military lines just equipped with inferior weapons and support most likely

For a successful unit like the 1st Regiment, those 200% casualties may also have translated into a lot of captured weapons and kit getting added to the regiment's arms and supply rooms. The higher ups in the NA cell hierarchy may think that captured war materiel (and any other loot) should be turned into them to redistribute, but it also sounds like the 1st Regiment is a unit where the immediate chain of command would be on board with subverting higher's wishes to better attend to what their unit needs.

[kalos72]

Thats true, with 200% casualities in the 1st, that would equate to alot of enemy dead as well. Captured weapons/ammo would be highly prized at this stage of the game.

I am pretty sure there was a post about weapon designs that could be made after the nukes dropped...I need to look that up again.

[Webstral]

At a time in which firearms and explosives of any sort are available, hand-to-hand combat is likely to resemble trench fighting and the fighting at Stalingrad. Night assaults or attacks covered by smoke or weather are desirable because they limit the utility of the enemy's firearms. Close-quarters combat typically will be directed against enemy strong points that cannot be destroyed by heavy weapons for whatever reason (the weapons aren't available, the weapons can't be moved to the right place, there's no more ammo, etc.). In this case, the object will be to get assault troops close enough to introduce an explosive or incendiary device into the defensive position, then follow up with an assault using available weapons suited for close quarters battle (CQB). Shotguns with short barrels, submachine guns, and sidearms are good options. Compact melee weapons also have their value in such circumstances.

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