POMCUS and ReForGer

[Adm.Lee]

Spinning off of from the "Dependents" thread...

What always got to me was the POMCUS seemed to be geared for Armored Divisions, while none of the Divisions that were suppose to come from the mainland immediately had all of their components actives or had Brigade posted forwards already...

So it seems regardless if it was by designed or because how a military conflict would developed in Germany, it seems to me that very few US Divisions would have made the transition from the US to Germany intact. The exception of these would be the 82nd and 101st Division if they were transferred to Europe and not elsewhere.

I'm sorry, I don't see what you mean

AFAIK, the POMCUS sites were set up for 5 divisions (2nd Armored, 1st Mech, 4th Mech, 5th Mech, 1st Cav) and an ACR (3rd). That's all of the active divisions that were supposed to go to Germany, using air transport for personnel. Two of them, I think, had forward brigades (from 2AD and 1MD) in Europe and only 5 MD had an NG roundout brigade (or did 1CD, too). Except for those NG brigades, all of those divisions (all mech or armored), were active-duty, and supposed to be ready to go. Are you saying they were less than ready

Note on sources: I'm using GDW's "Battle for Germany" OB, since that's right next to my PC and I'm gearing up for a PBEM of that.

[dragoon500ly]

Spinning off of from the "Dependents" thread...



I'm sorry, I don't see what you mean

AFAIK, the POMCUS sites were set up for 5 divisions (2nd Armored, 1st Mech, 4th Mech, 5th Mech, 1st Cav) and an ACR (3rd). That's all of the active divisions that were supposed to go to Germany, using air transport for personnel. Two of them, I think, had forward brigades (from 2AD and 1MD) in Europe and only 5 MD had an NG roundout brigade (or did 1CD, too). Except for those NG brigades, all of those divisions (all mech or armored), were active-duty, and supposed to be ready to go. Are you saying they were less than ready

Note on sources: I'm using GDW's "Battle for Germany" OB, since that's right next to my PC and I'm gearing up for a PBEM of that.

The 1st CD had a roundout brigade, the 155th Armored Brigade of the Mississippi NG...the POMCUS plans had the School Brigade from Fort Benning (the 197th MIB) as replacing the 155th.

POMCUS also had two sets of equipment for the Field Artillery Brigades supporting III Corps.

[Adm.Lee]

The 1st CD had a roundout brigade, the 155th Armored Brigade of the Mississippi NG...the POMCUS plans had the School Brigade from Fort Benning (the 197th MIB) as replacing the 155th.

POMCUS also had two sets of equipment for the Field Artillery Brigades supporting III Corps.

Thank you. I figured there were corps assets, too, they just don't show up in that game. Those were also active-duty formations, I assume

[Panther Al]

Hrmmm... From the looks of the units involved, 5 decent to good divisions and one effing outstanding regiment, it appears that the reforger/pomcus combo was a III Corps show for the most part, for those that know, was that the case or

[dragoon500ly]

Thank you. I figured there were corps assets, too, they just don't show up in that game. Those were also active-duty formations, I assume

Based out of Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Should have been the 75th FAB with 3 battalions of SP 155 and 1 of SP 203 and the 212th FAB with 2 bns each of SP 155/SP203.

[dragoon500ly]

Hrmmm... From the looks of the units involved, 5 decent to good divisions and one effing outstanding regiment, it appears that the reforger/pomcus combo was a III Corps show for the most part, for those that know, was that the case or

POMCUS was III Corps all the way...2 understrength armored divisions, a full strength mech division and two understrength mech divisions...at leastuntil 2AD and 1MID linked up with their forward deployed brigades....as for that 3ACR bunch...to be sure they were the effing outstanding unit in REFORGER...but that was because the 2ACR was already in country, kicking ass and taking names!!!

LOL!!!!

[Panther Al]

Granted those 2ACR guys never blew up their own motorpool, after all, thems that can, do, thems that can't, teach...

So, why was it they decided that the 2nd couldn't be trusted with the heavy stuff and given hummers eh

[dragoon500ly]

Granted those 2ACR guys never blew up their own motorpool, after all, thems that can, do, thems that can't, teach...

So, why was it they decided that the 2nd couldn't be trusted with the heavy stuff and given hummers eh

Somebody had to teach the XVIII Airborne Corps how to do it right!

[dragoon500ly]

Besides...it costs an arm and a leg to ship the heavy stuff home from Germany...better to deactivate the ole Deuce, sell the equipment to the Kuwaitis and then reactivate the Deuce at Fort Polk when somebody in the Pentagon realized that the 2nd was formed by direct order of the President...and nobody in the Pentagon outranks the Pres! At least it beats the hell out of what happened to the ole Black Horse!

[Panther Al]

Ah, but the 3rd was known as the Presidents own. So there. :P

Anyways, this thread got jacked badly, so back on topic, except for the forward brigades, am I correct that all of three corp was those 5+1, or did other corps involved

[dragoon500ly]

Ah, but the 3rd was known as the Presidents own. So there. :P

Anyways, this thread got jacked badly, so back on topic, except for the forward brigades, am I correct that all of three corp was those 5+1, or did other corps involved

Doctrine for a US corps was 3 divisions, so III Corps with 5 is a bit overstrength. I've always read that the plans were for 1MID to reinforce V Corps while 2AD reinforced NORTHAG. I've also heard that III Corps was to reinforce NORTHAG with a 4-div force...the problem is that the existing logistical line ran south to V/VII Corps. Would make more sense to send the REFORGER to join the line with the rest of Seventh Army.

The big question in the deployment of III Corps would be just how far the Russians were able to drive into the Dutch/Belgian/UK line. One of the reasons why the 2AD forward deployed brigade was moved north was due to concerns when the Dutch/Belgians made the decision to cut their war stocks from 30 days to 10 days as part of a budget cutback. The brigade was to cover the port of Bremerhaven since this was the main US port for supplies. Of course that was taking place when France was doing its "we are on the board of NATO, but we are not taking part in NATO so don't count on the use of French ports" argument.

[Abbott Shaull]

Okay so then some of the sites were did not have full Division worth of equipment sets Such as those for the 1st Mech and 2nd Armored which already had forward brigade deployed.

[dragoon500ly]

Okay so then some of the sites were did not have full Division worth of equipment sets Such as those for the 1st Mech and 2nd Armored which already had forward brigade deployed.

Based on the Congressional Record, it is my understanding that the POMCUS sites had full sets of divisional equipment. After all, the Army could find men to man the the equipment at the risk of stripping a stateside unit of its personnel.

[Abbott Shaull]

Based on the Congressional Record, it is my understanding that the POMCUS sites had full sets of divisional equipment. After all, the Army could find men to man the the equipment at the risk of stripping a stateside unit of its personnel.

That what I thought for what I could read too. Just making sure.

Like I said that it one of those things that makes one wonder how they use to go on about units deploying with units they had trained with. Yet, the deployment of the III Corps shows clearly that wouldn't have been the case if the balloon went up without warning. Now in the timeline that GDW presented their may have been time for the Round-out Units to train up and deploy with their parent organization.

[dragoon500ly]

That what I thought for what I could read too. Just making sure.

Like I said that it one of those things that makes one wonder how they use to go on about units deploying with units they had trained with. Yet, the deployment of the III Corps shows clearly that wouldn't have been the case if the balloon went up without warning. Now in the timeline that GDW presented their may have been time for the Round-out Units to train up and deploy with their parent organization.

What is always intresting about the REFORGER role, virtually every dvision/brigade assigned had either a round out brigade or round out battalions to bring it up to strength. And yet these round out units all needed a minimum of 30 days to be combat ready.

The whole return of forces to germany concept requires such a long lead time to be effective. And don't forget that the act of the President ordering REFORGER could be considered as an escalation by the Soviets. I'm sure that anyone stationed in Germany during the annual REFORGER exercises can remember the higher state of readiness caused, in part, by the Soviets going to a higher state of readiness because they always considered the REFORGER exercises as an excellent time for NATO to attack them!

I'm afraid, that REFORGER, like so many of the NATO war plans is more in the nature of a best wish than a tactical reality.