The Soviet Cuba Division

[rcaf_777]

Dose anybody have any info on this formation, all I have been able to find is a few reports saying about 2600 troops were left as advisors after the cuba missile crisis.

On another note I think that any Soviet equipment and troops would sent back to Europe before the war started to replace loses of equipment of those lost from the war with China.

[Abbott Shaull]

Well I think it was the imagination of the GDW. Also about what equipment, I don't think they updated much of it. Wonder if the Cuban would liberate the equipment for themselves...

[sglancy12]

Even the original GDW materials refers to the Division Cuba as just an ad hoc amalgamation of the Soviet advisers marooned in Cuba after the nuclear strikes of 1997-1998. It self-designated itself "Division Cuba." In real life, there was never a unit designated "Division Cuba."

Of course, that always seemed to suggest to me that the Division Cuba that found itself marooned in San Antonio would have been made up of a majority of troops older than the typical Soviet recruit and far more technically competent. With all that talent available, San Antonio might have more services working than any other city in Texas.

A. Scott Glancy, President TCCorp, dba Pagan Publishing

[Abbott Shaull]

Unlike the US and many of allies. Many of the Soviet Technical advisors are civilians and not military trained...

Yes, I remember the unit just adopted the name, but still a very small division even compared by Soviet pre-war standards...

[RN7]

According to Red Star-Lone Star.

As of late summer 2000 Soviet Division Cuba had 3,000 men and 15 operational tanks (mostly T-80's & T-72's) with some other AFV (mostly BTR-70's and BMP variants).

Soviet forces attacking Brownsville: (230 men, 3x BMP, 8x BTR-70, 2x ZSU-30, 9x Jeeps, 6x Trucks)

Soviet forces attacking Port Isabel: (120 men, 4x BTR-70, 5x Jeeps, 2x Trucks, 2x Fuel Tankers)

It likely that the Soviets have also captured or acquired a number of US and Mexican military and light vehicles and some artillery as well.

[Abbott Shaull]

More than likely, but I don't see the Cubans letting the Soviet leave with 'their' toys. Mostly the Soviets retained operational control over Anti-Air Missile Batteries and Aviation assets that were loaned out. Same thing naval vessel they invariably loan out to their 'brothers-in-arms'.

[rcaf_777]

I found a DIA report online can't post in on here due bandwidth, this is what I was able to come up with

Soviet Forces Cuba

The Soviet Forces have been in Cuba since shortly before the Cuba missiles, the soviet the main purpose of the soviet troops in Cuba is provide a technical assistance to Cuba forces, engage in signal intelligence, provide a symbolic show of force to the US that the USSR is ready to defend Cuba. With a one Motorized Rifle Brigade, this unit is more defensive force rather than a combat unit capable of conducting operations beyond Cuba. Given it size and equipment it would take a build up of equipment and transport aircraft before this unit could sent outside of Cuba, signs of which would observed by the US

Motorized Rifle Brigade (1x Tank Battalion, 3x Motorized Rifle Battalions) 2600
Cuban Military Advisory Group - 2000
Cuban Civilian Advisory Group - 8000
Lourdes Signals Intelligence Facility (See Below) 1500
Total Troops: 14,100

Bases
Lourdes Signals Intelligence Facility: The Lourdes Signals Intelligence facility, located near Havana, Cuba, was the largest facility of its kind operated by the KBG, outside of the U.S.S.R. Located less than 100 miles from Key West, the facility covered 28 square miles. The facility is staffed by over 1,500 KGB, GRU, Cuban DGI, and Eastern Bloc technicians, engineers and intelligence operatives.

I way I see it, once the war gets really going most of troops and modern equipment in Cuba leave for China or European Fronts. The Soviet do send replacements but they are thrid class troops, too old or medical unfit for combat.

The US attacks (conventional) airfeilds that can take Bear Bombers, as well as the Naval Bases, and the Lourdes Signals Intelligence Facility, which scares Fidel to point where he breaks with the Soviets. He knows he will not survie an american invasion, and with the Soviets occuppied eles where he can only offer a token defensive.

I can also see the Soviets no longer providing oil or any cash to prop up Cuba, so I see them try to build an alliance with left nations in centeral or south america

[sglancy12]

Soviet Forces Cuba

Motorized Rifle Brigade (1x Tank Battalion, 3x Motorized Rifle Battalions) 2600
Cuban Military Advisory Group - 2000
Cuban Civilian Advisory Group - 8000
Lourdes Signals Intelligence Facility (See Below) 1500
Total Troops: 14,100

Well, considering that by the late Summer of 2000 the Soviet Division Cuba was whittled down (according to the scenario Red Star/Lone Star and the Soviet Vehicle Guide) to 3,000 men, 15 operational tanks and a number of AFVs, I suppose that those numbers are not a terrible starting point.

Being stuck in the continental US, there might be fewer desertions since there's no way to just walk back to Minsk. Plus, they're in Texas, where neck-tie parties are an institution. Surrendering to the Texans might go badly for the Soviets.

Plus, the unit sounded like it performed fairly well during the invasion of Texas, with more casualties caused by partisan snipers after the occupation of San Antonio rather than by the US 49th Armored Division in 1999.

However, this is an ad hoc division, formed from those forces marooned in Cuba. Except for the Motor Rifle Brigade, none of these individuals have worked together as a coordinated unit. The military advisers may be extremely skilled individuals, but they are not operating as companies or battalions. Maybe while the unit was marooned, the Soviets could have taken some time and prepared their non-combatants by having the military advisers train the non-combatants as line infantrymen between 1995 and 1998.

The big question is whether they'd have enough gear to field close to 8,000 men. For my part the inclusion of T72s suggests that the Cuban gave the soviets some gear as part of the deal to get them to leave the island. Aren't T72s the export version of the T64 Soviets would have had a problem with logistics since none of their Pact standard gear is compatible with the gear the Mexican Army is packing in 1998.

[pmulcahy11b]

Aren't T72s the export version of the T64

Only kind of. In many ways the T-72 is more advanced than the T-64, in some ways less advanced. Armor sloping and turret silhouette are also a bit different.

[HorseSoldier]

And the Soviets fielded a lot of T-72s in addition to the ones they exported.

If I remember right, the Soviets also had a battalion or so sized SOF force who were there specifically to launch direct action missions against targets in the US if the balloon went up. With Castro's "I'll just sit this one out" approach to the war in the T2K timeline, these guys may not have done much before Div Cuba got shipped to Mexico, but their presence may help explain the battlefield successes of a mostly ad hoc unit.

[Legbreaker]

It's mentioned in Gateway to the Spanish Main that Cuba was involved in fighting in Angola. A number (unspecified) of regiments were involved with the worst (the 21st MRR) evacuated by ship in late 2000 (they arrived in Grenada in November 2000) after being defeated by non-Marxist guerillas.

Given their involvement in Africa (which apparently began in mid 1993 or even earlier), it's no real surprise the Cubans tried to remain neutral with respect to the European war and it's participants - they probably didn't have the troops available to defend themselves if they made too many political waves.

[HorseSoldier]

It's mentioned in Gateway to the Spanish Main that Cuba was involved in fighting in Angola. A number (unspecified) of regiments were involved with the worst (the 21st MRR) evacuated by ship in late 2000 (they arrived in Grenada in November 2000) after being defeated by non-Marxist guerillas.

Order of battle information for Cuba seems really hard to track down. I've been interested in seeing an OOB for their real world involvement in Angola and there just doesn't seem to be any hard info out there, even historical estimates from US or other western intelligence agencies of old SADF intel.

[pmulcahy11b]

This:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolutionary_Armed_Forces

Is the closest I could find, but is critically short on vehicles and equipment assigned to what military units.

[boogiedowndonovan]

This:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolutionary_Armed_Forces

Is the closest I could find, but is critically short on vehicles and equipment assigned to what military units.

I've said it once before and I will say it again, my memory is cluttered with useless facts.

There is a series of posts on the ToE yahoo groups regarding the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces circa 1986-88. A poster by the name of "lovingfall2003" aka Dave Mann put together an orbat.

I will copy and paste here. Link to the post is here, but there are 5 parts.

Enjoy!

"Say hello to my little friends" -- Tony Montana(Angola Vet)
PART NO. 1
Armed forces overview- Cuba- 1986-88
TOTAL FORCES ACTIVE- 182,000
TOTAL READY RESERVES- 135,000 (first line reserves to fill
out active units a large portion of whom filled out units going to
Angola and Ethiopa). SAID TO BE ABLE TO MOBILIZE IN 24 HRS
Terms of service- 3 years active and untill 50 for ready
reserves.
Army (FAR)- 147,000 incl 10,000 ready reserves called up.
(est,60,000 consripts)
4- corps
3- armed div (1 Cat A, 2 Cat C )
3- mech inf div (1 Cat A, 2 Cat B )
13- inf div (3 Cat A, 3 Cat B, 7 Cat C )
10- indep inf reg (Cat B/C )
1- AB aslt bde (Cat A )
1- Naval inf bn (Cat A)
note on Cat's- A-fully manned by active duty, B-partly
manned by active duty to be filled with ready reserves on mob, C-
active cadre, fully manned by reserves on mob
MINISTRY OF INTERIOR TROOPS(MINTINT)
4- Border Guard bde(TGF)(4,000)(Cat A)-frontier troops
Special Troops(SF)- (est,2,000)-elite troops
Special Bn of police- (est, 250)-very elite troops
DSE- 15,000 (state security)
Air Force (DAAFAR)- 21,000 (est,10,000 consripts)
FGA, 3 sqn-(36 MiG-23BN)
FIGHTERS, 8 sqn:
2- 30 Mig-21F
2- 30 Mig-21PFM
2- 20 MiG-21PFMA
1- 17 MiG-21bis
1- 15 MiG-23 FLOGGER-E
TRANSPORTS, 4 sqn: 35 An-2, 3 An-24, 22 An-26, 4 Yak-40, 2
IL-76.
HELO'S, 8 sqn: 30 Mi-8/-17 (20 armed), 25-Mi-24/-25 HIND-D,
4 Mi-14
AIR DEFENSE, 200+ SAM launchers SA-2/-3/-6/-9/-13
TROOP TRANSPORTS, 10 IL-62, 7 Tu-154
NAVY(MGR)- 14,000 (est, 9,000 conscripts)
SUBS- 3 FOXTROT
FRIGATES- 3 KONI CLASS
PATROL AND MISSILE CRAFT- 58 SOVIET TYPES(KOMAR
CLASS,KRONSHTADT CLASS
MINE WARFARE- 14 4-SOV SONYA CLASS, 10 SOV YEVGENYA CLASS
AMPHIBIOUS- 2 SOV POLNOCNY CLASS
COASTAL DEFENSE- 50 SSM SAMLET (INACTIVE)
PARA-MILITARY-
civil defense- 100,000
youth labor army(EJT)- 100,000
territorial militia(MTT)- 1,200,000


"Say hello to my little friends"

PART NO.2 Dave Mann

Org of Inf CO-
1-CO HQ
3- INF PLTS
6- OFFICERS
77- MEN
Org of Inf BN-
1-BN HQ
3- INF CO
1- MORTAR BTRY 6-MORTARS 82/120-MM
1- ANTI-TANK PLT 2-AT GUNS 57/76/85-MM
1- SUPPLY AND MAINT PLT
365- OFF'S AND MEN
Org of Inf REGT-
1-REGT HQ
2-INF BN
1-SIG CO
1-RECON PLT 12 MOTO'S W/SIDE CAR
1-AAMG CO 6-ANTI-AIRCRAFT MG'S
1-ANTI-TANK PLT 2-AT GUNS 57/76-MM
1-MORTAR BTRY 6-MOTARS 82/120-MM
1-TRANSPORT PLT
1-SUPPLY AND SVC PLT
1-MED SEC
1010- OFF'S AND MEN
6-AA GUNS
6-AT GUNS
18-MORTARS 82/120-MM


Cuba NO.3
Org of Inf Div-
1-DIV HQ (Off's & men)
3-INF REGT'S (3,030)
1-TANK REGT (720)
1-ARTY REGT (975)
1-ADA REGT (600)
1-RECON BN (200)
1-CHEM DEF CO
1-ENG CO
1-TRANSPORT BN
1-SUPPLY AND SERVICE CO
1-SIG CO
1-MED CO
5,900 off's and men
36-82/120-mm
24+ AA MG/TOWED ADA GUNS
65- MED TANKS (T-54/55/62)
3-PT-76
48- AT GUNS
18- MED/HEAVY/HOWITZERS
18- MRL(MULTIPLE ROCKET LAUNCHERS)

Cuban NO.4
Org of a representitive Mech Inf BN--
1-BN HQ
3-MECH RIFLE CO 30 APC'S
1-MORT BTRY 6-82/110 MORT
1-ANTI-TANK PLT 2-57/76 AT GUNS
1-SUPPLY AN MAINT PLT
430 OFF'S AND MEN
27-RPG-7
6-82/110 MORTARS
2-57/76 AT GUNS
30+ APC'S
Org of a Mech Inf REGT- (OFF'S AND MEN)
1-REGT HQ TOTALS- 1,560 off's and men
2-MECH RIFLE BN (860) 12-18 82/120-mm mortars
1-TANK BN (150) 18- sp/towed ada guns
1-MORT OR HOWT BTRY 0-6 med/heavy guns
1-ATGM BTRY 21-med tanks t-62's
1-AA MG BTRY (70) 3-pt-76's light tanks
1-ARMD RECON CO 60+ apc's (BTR-40/60/)
1-ENGR CO (50)
1-MAINT CO
1-TRANSPORT CO
1-CHEM DEF PLT
1-SUPPLY AND SVC PLT
1-SIG CO
1-MED PLT



Cuba NO.5
Org of a Mech Inf Div- (Off's and men)
1-DIV HQ Total's
3-MECH INF REGTS (4,680) 8,700 off's and men
1-TANK REGT (840) 36-54 mortars
1-ARTY REGT (975) 48+ sp/towed ada guns
1-ADA REGT (600) 126+ med tanks/su-100 astgns
1-ARMED RECON BN 12+ PT-76 light tanks
1-ENGR BN (300) 30-lt at guns
1-MAINT BN (150) 18-36 med/heavy/howt
1-TRANSPORT BN 18-mrls
1-CHEM DEF CO (45)
1-SUPPLY AND SERV CO
1-SIG BN (250)
1-MED BN (140)
Org of a Tank CO-
1-HQ TANK
2-TANK PLT (3-TANK EACH)
3 OFFICERS
26 MEN
Org of Tank BN-
1-BN HQ (1-TANK)
3-TANK CO (21 TANKS)
1-SVC AND SUPPLY PLT
130 OFF'S AND MEN
22 MED TANKS
Org of Tank REGT-
3-TANK BN (450)
2-ADA BTRYS
1-ARMD RECON CO 3-PT-76'S
1-ENGR CO (50)
1-MAINT CO
1-TRNSP CO
1-CHEM DEF PLT
1-SUPPLY AND SERVICE CO
1-SIG CO
1-MED PLT
840 OFF'S AND MEN
63+ MED TANKS (T-54/55/62)
3-LT TANKS PT-76'S
12-SP/TOWED ADA GUNS
Org of a Tank DIV-
1-MECH INF REGT (1,560)
3-TANK REGTS (2,520)
1-ARTY REGT (975)
1-ADA REGT (600)
1-ARMD RECON BN (230)
1-ENGR BN (270)
1-MAINT BN (140)
1-TRNSP BN
1-CHEM DEF CO (45)
1-SUPPLY AND SERVICE BN
1-SIG BN (220)
1-MED CO (60)
6,600 OFF'S AND MEN
116+ MED TANKS
12+ PT-76'S
30+ SP/TOWED ADA GUNS
12-18 MORTARS
22-LT AT GUNS
18-24 MED/HEAVY/HOWITZERS
18 MRLS
Org of a Artillery REGT-
1-MED/HVY ARTY BN (300) 18 MED/HEAVY GUNS
1-LT ARTY BN (200)/ 18 LT AT GUNS
1-MRLS BN (210) 18 MRL
1-ADA BTRY 6 AD MG
1-TARGET ACQ UNIT
1-TRNSP CO
1-MAINT CO
1-CHEM DEF PLT
1-SIG CO
1-MED PLT
975 OFF'S AND MEN
18-MED/HVY GUNS
18-LT GUNS
18 MRLS
6-AD MG'S
Representive strenths-
Corps strenth- 17,300 (3 div)
Army strenth- 70,200 (only in time of major war)organization
not set in peace time

Total equipment holdings of the Cuban military-
MBT- 650 T-54/55, 300 T-62, (200+ T-34'S in storage)
LT TK- 60+ PT-76's
RECCE- 100 BRDM-1/-2
MICV-50 BMP's
APC's- 500 BTR-40/-60/-152
TOWED ARTY-76MM:M-1942;122MM:M-1931/37,D-74's:130MM:M-
46;152MM:M-1937,D-20's,D-1.
MRL-122mm:BM-21;140mm:BM-14;240mm:BM-24
STATIC DEFENSE ARTY: T-34's,and SU-100's

Over seas deployments-
Nicaraqua 3,000
Angola 35,000+
Congo 400-800
Ethiopia 5,000+
Mozambique 700
South Yemen 500
Also numerious "Civilian's" as economic "ect" advisors in
all of the above aswell. The troops in Angola and Ethiopia were
considered trained-vet combat troops, one of the reasons they sent so
many troop rotations thru the above was to give all of the ready
reservists some combat exp as are friend "Tony Montana" could testify
too. I hope all of the above helps and if any one has any questions
feel free to e-mail me any time also sorry for the above being broken
up into 5-emails i am alittle tired after working all day and i did not
realize i could have fit this all on one page, i guess thats why they
call military intelligence analysts "oxy-morons". Dave Mann

[Hybris]

Nice..