Tweet
Originally posted by RN7
View Post
-
Yeah, theres a fair amount of runway space, but I agree that little of it would be pressed into to much service. All the RAF and army have ever used over here has been lighter stuff - Gazelles, Lynx, Puma, Chinook, Scout and Sioux on the rotary side, the occasional C130 on the fixed wing side and the Army Air Corps used to fly Beavers as spotter aircraft. There was the old Queens University Air Squadron as well, operating Chipmunks and later Bulldogs, based at Sydenham using the City Airport runways, but relocated to RAF Aldergrove in 1992. In the real world the squadron was disbanded in 1996, but in a Twilight timeline it might still be acive.Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird. -
I used to have an overlay of all the UK airfields there have ever been- including fakes built during WW2 to divert attacks from real airfields. I haven't checked this link http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/0.../UK/ukmenu.htmfor safety, but it claims to be the zip file required.
Another personal favourite airfield was RAF Binbrook, in Lincolnshire- home of the Lightning until its retirement in the 80s. As an optimised Air Defence station, it might have returned to use in the run-up to the Twilight War.
Some of the RAF stations you have listed are not actually airbases- High Wycombe is an admin support station (although there is an airfield nearby, at Booker on the western side of High Wycombe). West Drayton, although not an airfield, would have been a valid target, as it was the main Air Traffic Control Centre for military aircraft in England and Wales (and was colocated with the civilian London ATCC).
All this is just nitpicking though- an excellent piece of work, and if I can ever find a GM I'll point him at this thread (and pretend I never read it).
I laugh in the face of danger. Then I hide until it goes away.Comment
-
Minor details
1. Exeter is not really much of a military base. There is a TA barracks, but the big one is a few miles south: the Royal Marines' training facility at Lympstone
2. There are (former) military airfields all over South West England. My personal favourite is Dunkeswell, in Devon, the only US Navy airbase set up in Britain during WW2. It''s a fairly busy civilian airport
3. Never forget the collectors like this Devon businessman http://www.cobbatoncombat.co.uk/Last edited by Matt W; 01-06-2011, 08:24 PM.Comment
-
Originally posted by Sanjuro View PostI used to have an overlay of all the UK airfields there have ever been- including fakes built during WW2 to divert attacks from real airfields. I haven't checked this link http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/0.../UK/ukmenu.htmfor safety, but it claims to be the zip file required.
Another personal favourite airfield was RAF Binbrook, in Lincolnshire- home of the Lightning until its retirement in the 80s. As an optimised Air Defence station, it might have returned to use in the run-up to the Twilight War.
Some of the RAF stations you have listed are not actually airbases- High Wycombe is an admin support station (although there is an airfield nearby, at Booker on the western side of High Wycombe). West Drayton, although not an airfield, would have been a valid target, as it was the main Air Traffic Control Centre for military aircraft in England and Wales (and was colocated with the civilian London ATCC).
All this is just nitpicking though- an excellent piece of work, and if I can ever find a GM I'll point him at this thread (and pretend I never read it).
Hi Sanjuro,
I'm aware that High Wycombe and West Drayton are not flying bases, but as their RAF I was unsure wither to classify them as military or air bases, so I just went with air bases in the end. Both bases were fairly important during the Cold War. High Wycombe was and still is the main RAF control base with a lot of powerful communication equipment, and West Drayton monitored all air traffic coming into UK airspace.
RAF Binbrook would probably be a legitimate RAF air base in 2TK, in fact even today the base and runway still largely stands and could be quickly reconverted. There are a few other former RAF bases that might be included, but their is so much to cover its hard to its hard to get it 100% the first time, but I will be happy to update it for anyone.
High Wycombe itself would also be a legitimate surving town in its own right with a population close to 100,000, so I must update that to.
On a side note; through looking more deeply at British military bases there are a lot of little known bunkers complexes that have turned up across the UK that's worth a mention. Makes you wonder what the British government was up to during the Cold War, and what's still out there. I can't find any information on it at the moment, but I saw something on TV a while back about a top secret base beneath an RAF air base with its own underground railway system. Does anyone know about itComment
-
Originally posted by Matt W View Post
Hi Mat,
I just tried to include every existant military base I could find, and I know I missed a few. Exeter might be a bit busier in T2k than it is now. I missed Lympstone and Dunkeswell, thanks I will update that.Comment
-
Originally posted by RN7 View Post
Hi RN7,
Several locations were set up as Contingency Centres for Continuation of Government in the event that Central Government was taken out. The specific locations changed a few times throughout the years...there's an overview on wikipedia.
There was also a bunker at Corsham in Wiltshire, which was intended for use by central Government (provided there was enough time for them to get out of London). However, as far as I know by the end of the 1960's British Intelligence believed that their Soviet counterparts knew of the Corsham bunker's existence and it would have been a likely target in any nuclear exchange. As it was thought it was unlikely that it could have survived a direct hit (dependent on the size of the weapon), plans were changed, but the bunker remained in existence. I believe the new plan called for members of central Government to "scatter" to different places rather than all congregate in one place. Those different places would include (but not be limited to) the Regional Seats of Government.
The Corsham bunker may have had an underground rail network (although I suspect it would be similar to that found in a mine!) I have also read various pieces on the web speculating that there is some sort of secret underground rail network underneath London linking Buckingham Palace, Downing Street, Parliament etc, but Government Ministers have gone on record as stating this is not the case (of course if it's secret they're not going to say otherwise!). I've never heard anything about an RAF base with a rail network underneath it, but the most likely candidate would probably be High Wycombe.
Other useful links on the subject are here (for info about the bunkers themselves)
And here (a set of articles on HMG's plans in the event of nuclear war)
And here (The Government's London Command Centre)
Hope this helps...Author of the unofficial and strictly non canon Alternative Survivor’s Guide to the United KingdomComment
-
Thanks for the info there Raindbow Six.
I would say for certain that there are secret underground rail links under London. Probably some of it was just done by reopening/retunnelling and extending existant tunnels that have been closed over the past century or more, as the London underground is vast by any standard.
I know from an ex-girl friend who worked for a county council in southern England that underground operations centres exist beneath many council offices in cities across Britain, as she worked out of one during a drill the local council had. I don't know if they are all nuclear shelters but they are well equipped for emergency situations.
Here are another few links including some more information on Corsham.
Comment
-
Hi folks
Came across this post on google and I thought I would add my own 2p worth.
I am from Northern Ireland and own and run a Cold War museum so I want your section on N.I to be right!
Air Bases: RAF Aldergrove (Closed 2009), RAF Bishopscourt (Closed 1990)
Military Bases: Balykinler, Ballykelly (Closed 2008), Ballymena (Closed 2008), Belfast, Derry, Holywood, Lisburn, Omagh, Portadown (Now a Police Facility)
During the Cold War N.I would have been targeted by no less than 8 ICBM's.
Langford Lodge's runway is in decent condition and could easily land military aircraft, Aldergrove is now JHC Flying Station Aldergrove (Army Air Corps).
RAF Ballykelly closed in 1972 and became Shackleton Barracks, the RAF did still look after the runways until the base closed.
Northern Irelands Government Bunker is located in Ballymena - room for about 250 people.
Hope some of this info helps.Comment
-
Always good to have the opinion of somebody who actually knows! :P
Welcome!
Do you know the reasons behind the closure of RAF Bishopscourt
Do you have any more info on the Northern Irelands Government Bunker - for example how long it was expected to be in use, what the supply situation was for it, etcIf it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.
Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"
Mors ante pudoremComment
-
Bishopscourt was the site of 'Ulster Radar' until the mid-70's, any aircraft entering UK airspace from the Atlantic would have been monitored from there, this was all closed and moved to Prestwick in Scotland. Bishopscourt was then used primarily by the Army for a while, the runways where kept in good condition but had not been in proper use since the 50's. Around 1980 a new surface bunker was built to house a mobile radar, very soon after the need for so many radar stations was simply not required, Bishopscourt was far to big a site for what little RAF staff lived there and the Radar station was out of date after only 8 years. It closed in 1989 and sold off around 1991, most of the original RAF housing is now used as civilian housing. Its is still an impressive place today, its is fairly run down but you can still tell it was a massive military base in its day.Originally posted by Legbreaker View Post
The bunker in Ballymena is in Woodside Ind Estate just to the north of Ballymena, it was built in 1989 and would have housed all the government officials needed to run the country after a nuclear exchange. Everything would have been run from here, Police, Fire Service, Hospitals, ministry for welfare and food, etc.
Approx 250 people would have lived there for around 1 month, supplies inside where basic rations, the bunker has its own pumping station so fresh water was not a problem. Power was supplied by two massive generators. It was never used in any capacity, some equipment was stored there but nothing substantial, I have visited it a few times now to obtain some items for my museum and found it an amazing place. Its on 2 levels and about the size of a football pitch on each level.
It was mothballed in 1990 and is not used in any way now, the NI Government tried to sell it a few years ago and got no offers, I think the rates to keep it going are about L250,000 a year and the a/c system has to be kept running to keep the place at a constant temperature so the electric bill would not be cheap!
There is not many pictures of it floating about but here is one to wet your appetites....
My museums website for anyone interested... www.nibunker.co.ukComment
-
Originally posted by pilot25dmc View Post
Hi pilot25dmc,
In the Twilight War time period all of the RAF bases and military bases exist, with the exception of RAF Bishopcourt. But as Bishopcourt was only closed in the early 1990's it could easily be reactivated, as even today the runway is intact.
In T2K Northern Ireland wasn't targeted by nuclear weapons, even though there are potential targets. Shackelton Barracks is covered under Ballykelly, and it and Ballymena is under military bases.Comment
-
True, it probably could, but as it's usefulness as a base expired even before the end of the cold war, it's original use is extremely unlikely to be reinstated.Originally posted by RN7 View Post
As an airstrip on the otherhand....If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.
Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"
Mors ante pudoremComment
-
Pilot,Originally posted by pilot25dmc View Post
On behalf of everyone on the list, please accept our deep thanks for your input. We're grateful you decided to contribute some real world information and photos.
One of the cool things is we're talking about the background of a game where the Cold War didn't end but continued into the mid 90's before WWIII broke out (called the "Twilight War" and petering out in 2000-2001). Therefore it's possible that bases that closed during the UK's Options for Change and the Peace Dividend were kept active, even upgraded in some cases (as long as there was still a need).
TonyComment
-
Hi guys
Very interesting, I have done some reading into the history of the game since last night and have become a bit of a fan!
If the Cold War had in fact continued after 1989 then Northern Ireland would still have been a major target even today.
Lisburn was (in your timeline probably still is) the HQ of 31 Group Royal Observer Corps who operated out of a bunker in Thiepval Barracks. They would have monitored the effect of any nuclear explosion in the UK (There was 1400 smaller monitoring posts dotted all over the UK, my museum is in one of them!)
The US Navy had a major base in Derry and Bishopscourt was a Master Radar Station.
You can probably add Armagh to the list too as it also had a Regional Government Bunker inside Gough Barracks, there is also another Army base in Armagh called Drumadd Barracks.
Anything else you want to know then let me know.
Going to have another read at the history of twilight war now, very interesting indeed.Comment
Comment