Foreign troop use

[Mohoender]

I didn't envision them with vehicles as they are intended as local forces (indeed their main strength is local knowledge).

I thought so that's why my first ideas were that of hotchkiss jeep. My thinking comes from the Vichy Milice which was using citroen traction and trucks for transport.

The most striking vehicles that you could find among such units in T2K would certainly be the hotchkiss jeep, the Mehari, the 2CV, the peugeot 504, the renault "Tube" and probably a fair number of GMC (ww2 vintage).

[Canadian Army]

Here are some examples of how the British and French might organize foreign troops:

British

Brigade of Gurkhas

• 1st Battalion, 2nd King Edward VII's Own Gurkha Rifles (The Sirmoor Rifles)
• 1st Battalion, 6th Queen Elizabeth's Own Gurkha Rifles
• 1st Battalion, 7th Duke of Edinburgh's Own Gurkha Rifles
• 1st Battalion, 10th Princess Mary's Own Gurkha Rifles
• 101st (Gurkha) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery
• 102nd (Gurkha) Air Defense Regiment, Royal Artillery
• 50th Engineer Regiment, Queen's Gurkha Engineers
• 17th Signals Regiment, Queen's Gurkha Signals
• 28 (Gurkha) Transport Squadron, 10 Transport Regiment, Royal Logistic Corps
• 94 (Gurkha) Stores Squadron, 9 Supply Regiment, Royal Logistic Corps
• 17 (Gurkha) Provost Company, 3rd Regiment Royal Military Police
• No. 1 Squadron, Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force (12x S-70A Black Hawk)

50th (Caribbean) Infantry Brigade

• 1st Battalion, Caribbean Regiment
• 2nd Battalion, Caribbean Regiment
• 3rd Battalion, Caribbean Regiment
• 1st Battalion, The Bermuda Regiment (TA)
• Bermuda Militia Artillery, Royal Artillery
• 600 Independent (Bermuda Volunteer Engineers) Field Squadron, Royal Engineers
• 600 (Caribbean) Transport Regiment, Royal Corps of Transport

25th (African) Infantry Brigade

• 1st (Central Africa) Battalion, King's African Rifles
• 2nd (Central Africa) Battalion, King's African Rifles
• 3rd (East Africa) Battalion, King's African Rifles
• 4th (West Africa) Battalion, King's African Rifles
• 302nd (East African) Regiment, Royal Artillery
• 9 Independent (East African) Field Squadron, Royal Engineers
• 200 (Central Africa) Transport Regiment, Royal Corps of Transport

39th (Irish) Infantry Brigade [Mechanized]

• B (North Irish Horse) Squadron, Queen's Own Yeomanry
• The Queen's Royal Irish Hussars
• 1st Battalion, The Royal Irish Rangers (27th (Inniskilling) 83rd and 87th)
• 2nd Battalion, The Royal Irish Rangers (27th (Inniskilling) 83rd and 87th)
• 5th Battalion, The Royal Irish Rangers (TA)
• 102 (Irish) Regiment, Royal Artillery (Volunteers)
• 591 Independent Field Squadron, Royal Engineers
• 152 (Ulster) Transport Regiment (Volunteers), Royal Corps of Transport

Rapid Reaction Force, Hong Kong Field Force

• Headquarters
• Independent Gurkha Parachute Company, Parachute Regiment
• Hong Kong Chinese Regiment
• The Royal Hong Kong Regiment (The Volunteers)
• No. 1 Flight, Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force
• No. 2 Flight, Royal Hong Kong Auxiliary Air Force

French

6e Division Legere Blindee (6th Light Armoured Division)

• 6e Rgiment de Commandement et de Soutien (6th Command and Support Regiment)
• 1er Rgiment de Spahis Marocains (1st Regiment of Moroccan Spahis)
• 1er Rgiment otrangre de Cavalerie (1st Foreign Cavalry Regiment)
• 2eme Rgiment otrangre d'Infanterie (2nd Foreign Infantry Regiment)
• 1er Rgiment otrangre d'Infanterie (1st Foreign Infantry Regiment)
• 1e Rgiment otranger d"Artillerie (1st Foreign Artillery Regiment)
• 6e Rgiment otrangre du Gnie (6th Foreign Engineer Regiment)

13e Division Legere Blindee (13th Light Armoured Division)

• 13e Rgiment de Commandement et de Soutien (13th Command and Support Regiment)
• 1er Regiment de Chasseurs d'Afrique (1st African "Hunter" Regiment)
• 2e Rgiment otrangre de Cavalerie (2nd Foreign Cavalry Regiment)
• 4e Rgiment otrangre d'Infanterie (4th Foreign Infantry Regiment)
• 11e Rgiment otrangre d'Infanterie (11th Foreign Infantry Regiment)
• 2e Rgiment otranger d"Artillerie (1st Foreign Artillery Regiment)
• 2e Rgiment otrangre de Gnie (2nd Foreign Engineer Regiment)

13e Demi-Brigade de Lgion otrangre (13th Demi-Brigade of the Foreign Legion) Djibouti

• Compagnie de Commandement et de Soutien (Command and Support Company)
• Compagnie de Maintenance (Maintenance Company)
• Escadron de Reconnaissance (Reconnaissance Squadron)
• Compagnie d'Infanterie (Infantry Company)
• Compagnie de Gnie (Engineer Company)

3e Rgiment otranger d'infanterie (3rd Foreign Infantry Regiment) Cayenne, French Guyana

5e Rgiment otranger d'infanterie (5th Foreign Infantry Regiment) Papeete, French Polynesia

2eme Rgiment otranger de Parachutistes (2nd Foreign Parachute Regiment) 11th Division Parachutiste

12e Rgiment otrangre d'Infanterie (12th Foreign Infantry Regiment) Mayotte

Post Twilight French Foreign Units

• 21e Rgiment de marche de volontaires trangers (21st Marching Regiment of Foreign Volunteers)
• 22e Rgiment de marche de volontaires trangers (22nd Marching Regiment of the Foreign Volunteers)
• 23e Rgiment de marche de volontaires trangers (23rd Marching Regiment of Foreign Volunteers)

[Rainbow Six]

Canadian Army's post reminded me of the Hong Kong Military Service Corps, which recruited ethnic Chinese personnel in Hong Kong, who then served alongside their British counterparts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Military_Service_Corps

[Canadian Army]

Hong Kong Chinese Regiment

Canadian Army's post reminded me of the Hong Kong Military Service Corps, which recruited ethnic Chinese personnel in Hong Kong, who then served alongside their British counterparts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Ko..._Service_Corps

Actually I based the Hong Kong Chinese Regiment on the actual regiment from WWII. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Chinese_Regiment

[James Langham]

Canadian Army's post reminded me of the Hong Kong Military Service Corps, which recruited ethnic Chinese personnel in Hong Kong, who then served alongside their British counterparts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Ko..._Service_Corps

The Royal Hong Kong Regiment - had 1Bn - in my world formed a second and started to form a third. They are actually not part of the British Army but belong to the colony. In my background 1RHKR is attached to 6 Div, 2RHKR was internal security and the training unit.

[Rainbow Six]

I was under the impression that the HKMSC and the Royal Hong Kong Regiment were two separate entities, with the RHKR indeed part of the Hong Kong Government whilst the HKMSC was a part of the Army, and (according to wiki) served mainly to augment the regulars in the support units, although it did have one Infantry Company, which I would expand to at least one Bn in and place under command of 6 Dvn in canon T2K. Increasing the size of the RHKR to 2 Bns also makes sense to me.

[James Langham]

I was under the impression that the HKMSC and the Royal Hong Kong Regiment were two separate entities, with the RHKR indeed part of the Hong Kong Government whilst the HKMSC was a part of the Army, and (according to wiki) served mainly to augment the regulars in the support units, although it did have one Infantry Company, which I would expand to at least one Bn in and place under command of 6 Dvn in canon T2K. Increasing the size of the RHKR to 2 Bns also makes sense to me.

oops my mistake. I like your suggestions and will copy it for my background if you don't mind.

[Rainbow Six]

oops my mistake. I like your suggestions and will copy it for my background if you don't mind.

Be my guest - I don't mind at all...

Attached is something I put together a while ago on the 6th Division which some may find of interest...other than the units mentioned and Brigade numbers, it is, I believe, more or less in line with canon. There are a few Bns unaccounted for in canon which could be used instead.

Comments welcome...

(Note for those familiar with my UK work, this piece is not part of that...my own take on Hong Kong is a little different)

Cheers

[Canadian Army]

Just a idea, until the 1960s the British maintained the 17 Gurkha Division in Hong Kong.

[James Langham]

Updated article

New version, I've limited it to the bits I have fully fleshed out - the ideas above haven't been forgotten.

[Webstral]

Finally, how adherent to canon must it be to pass muster around here

As a writer who frequently goes off-reservation, I'll say that the best way to get a good reception is to make sure your work reflects thought. If you are adding to the established body of material, make sure your work fits. If you are writing something contrary to the established body of material, I strongly advise being certain that your work makes sense if you want a good reception. Thunder Empire contravenes the established body of material, if one uses the Mexican Army Order of Battle as a guide. Therefore, I have been obliged to go into some detail about how a whole host of challenges have been met such that a training brigade and a collection of desert municipalities survive into 2001 when so very many other American formations and municipalities with so much more going for them have not survived. In Twilight: 2000, weapons, fuel, food, etc. all come from someplace. Account for them and you should be fine.

[James Langham]

Just a idea, until the 1960s the British maintained the 17 Gurkha Division in Hong Kong.

If it wasn't called the 6th Div in cannon I would go with that.

[Raellus]

Ex-WTO NATO Formations

What about Warsaw Pact exiles/defectors Would we see NATO-aligned (and commanded) "independent" battalions/regiments/brigades of Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, etc

In my Ref/Player experience, WTO defectors always appear piecemeal (i.e. the former Polish or Soviet army soldier that appears in many PC parties). The only exception I can recall is former DDR troops in the Unified Bundeswehr, but that's not quite what we're discussing.

The more I think about it, the more "independent" foreign troop formations in NATO armies make sense for the milieu.

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[chico20854]

What about Warsaw Pact exiles/defectors Would we see NATO-aligned (and commanded) "independent" battalions/regiments/brigades of Poles, Czechs, Hungarians, etc

In my Ref/Player experience, WTO defectors always appear piecemeal (i.e. the former Polish or Soviet army soldier that appears in many PC parties). The only exception I can recall is former DDR troops in the Unified Bundeswehr, but that's not quite what we're discussing.

The more I think about it, the more "independent" foreign troop formations in NATO armies make sense for the milieu.

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I imagine that the Polish Free Congress would have two kinds of units under it's control: 1) units composed of exiles (or 2nd generation exiles that were fluent in Polish) that are trained/equipped by "parent" NATO armies and 2) entire Polish Army (and Border Guard) units that switched sides. Those units would largely maintain their organization/chain of command/equipment, vs the first type which would essentially be ethnic/national formations within their "parent" army.

The advantage of integrating individual deserters/exiles into a NATO unit is that there is little chance of the whole mass going back over and that the integration burden is relatively light, IF the deserter is able to communicate with the rest of his new unit. If he can't, then he's pretty useless...

[Raellus]

I imagine that the Polish Free Congress would have two kinds of units under it's control: 1) units composed of exiles (or 2nd generation exiles that were fluent in Polish) that are trained/equipped by "parent" NATO armies and 2) entire Polish Army (and Border Guard) units that switched sides. Those units would largely maintain their organization/chain of command/equipment, vs the first type which would essentially be ethnic/national formations within their "parent" army.

I'd always imagined that the PFC was more of a partisan organization than a proper army- to use a WW2 comparison, more along the lines of Warsaw's Home Army than the Polish Armed Forces in the West. I could be wrong about that, though. AFAIK, canon isn't very clear on the subject. I'd like to know more about the relationship between the PFC and NATO, especially regarding CnC and logistics.

The advantage of integrating individual deserters/exiles into a NATO unit is that there is little chance of the whole mass going back over and that the integration burden is relatively light, IF the deserter is able to communicate with the rest of his new unit. If he can't, then he's pretty useless...

True, but I think you'd lose something too- the sense of shared purpose and any sort of comradery esprit de corps that would probably come from serving alongside one's countrymen. And the risk of double-defection, I imagine, would be pretty low. Historically, the Soviets have been very hard on any perceived/suspected disloyalty. During WW2, just getting captured and becoming a POW of the Germans was usually enough to get a "liberated" or escaped Red Army soldier sent straight to the Gulags (or a mass grave).

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