Surplus armor in T2K

[dragoon500ly]

Also, even WWII light tanks like the M3/M5 Stuart have some use. You might not have any ammo for the 37mm cannon, but you still have 2-3 .30-cal / 7.62mm MGs, and the armor is good enough to stop machinegun fire.

Don't forget that the early M-3s used riveted armor, the bolt heads had a nasty habit of shearing when hit!

[kota1342000]

That's true with the rubber tracks, but if you were building APCs like that out of other vehicles, it would probably be much easier to find surplus wheels and tires as opposed to finding or making the rubber tracks. I know lots of snocats and off-road tracked dump trucks use rubber tracks, but those aren't very common.
I had thought about using the Mk19 for main armament but I bet the 19s are more useful for ring mounts and technicals.
But on that note, I was thinking about the 60mm Brandt breech loading mortar that the French developed. I was wondering if it would be easier to build some kind of single shot breech loading 60mm gun/mortar as opposed to milling an entire new gun barrel for a demilled gun or starting from scratch. What does everyone think (That's with several small motorshops, at least one small steel mill, and a large mechanical shop, all Gen. Pain's stats)

[copeab]

That's true with the rubber tracks, but if you were building APCs like that out of other vehicles, it would probably be much easier to find surplus wheels and tires as opposed to finding or making the rubber tracks.

Sorry, I was thinking of working vehicles, not going A-Team at a junkyard.

I had thought about using the Mk19 for main armament but I bet the 19s are more useful for ring mounts and technicals.

The gunner is better protected in a turret

[copeab]

Don't forget that the early M-3s used riveted armor, the bolt heads had a nasty habit of shearing when hit!

True, but I'm an easier target behind a tripod-mounted MG than a rivet is on a tank

[Canadian Army]

At least some of them also use 106mm recoilless.

The choke point on them, as far as a scavenger sort of economy, is that I think the US government support for those programs doles out ammunition in ones and twos (or whatever) as needed. Someone in the government having made the occasional bright idea that handing out a 90mm or 106mm recoilless rifle and several pallets worth of ammunition in one go has a some very, very bad potential worst case outcomes.

In the early 1990's, the US Army was out of surplus 75mm and 105mm Recoilless Rifle HE ordnance (HE rounds are the best avalanche control rounds). As a result, the Forest Service replace many of the existing 75mm and 105mm Recoilless Rifle systems with 106mm Recoilless Rifles (basically an updated, lighter version of the 105mm Recoilless Rifle, was used during the Korean and Viet Nam Wars). In December 2002, after several tragic in-bore explosions, the US Forest Service replaced all 106mm Recoilless Rifle with the 105 Howitzers.

Also each year the Washington Department of Transportation positions two M60A3 tanks just west of Stevens Pass for avalanche control.

[dragoon500ly]

True, but I'm an easier target behind a tripod-mounted MG than a rivet is on a tank

Let's not talk about your eating habits, shall we!

Of course I'm in shape...round is a shape!

There are a couple of photos of various pre-WWII tanks that were sprayed with machineguns (both .50 and .30-cal)...now the
.50-cal would just punch through the paper-thin armor...but it was the effect of the .30-cal that caught my bloodshot eye....fired from 500 yards, the API bullets still had enough force to crack the rivet heads, sending the bolts flying about the interior....nasty!

[HorseSoldier]

I wonder if you could replace the 37mm ATG with a 40mm Mk 19

I suspect it would be easier to modify a WW2 era turret set up for 37mm than a conversion to 25mm (at least 25mm M242), since it would be easier to sort out ammunition stowage, feed, and such, as well as not having to adjust the wiring to power the gun. A Mk19 is comparatively compact and uncomplicated, and in an open topped turret wouldn't be too hard to set up to employ the existing sights on the gun.

[kota1342000]

Anyone have thoughts on breech loading mortars that could be used in direct fire

[Abbott Shaull]

Let's not talk about your eating habits, shall we!

Of course I'm in shape...round is a shape!

There are a couple of photos of various pre-WWII tanks that were sprayed with machineguns (both .50 and .30-cal)...now the
.50-cal would just punch through the paper-thin armor...but it was the effect of the .30-cal that caught my bloodshot eye....fired from 500 yards, the API bullets still had enough force to crack the rivet heads, sending the bolts flying about the interior....nasty!

I suppose the crews inside weren't too happy about them either...

[dragoon500ly]

Anyone have thoughts on breech loading mortars that could be used in direct fire

Sure, the French used just such a mortar on the AML 60-20 that was in use in the 50-70s. It was intended for support roles, but the 60mm mortar could be fired directly, whole thing was breech-loaded. And before anybody chips in about its antiarmor capabilities, it didn't have any, not enough muzzle velocity for the mortar. Direct fire range was about 500m.

[dragoon500ly]

I suppose the crews inside weren't too happy about them either...

The pics are of Aberdeen PG tests on new armor and new methods of securing army. But when the rivited Stuarts saw action in North Africa, there are a lot of horror stories about the injuries caused.

[schnickelfritz]

Surplus Armor

The easiest solution for the 37mm armed US tanks/afv's would be to just fabricate some adapters to place a M2HB in it's place. I bet you could fabricate the adapters with the tools and materials found in a basic machine shop.

The 50-cal would have plenty of range and hitting power for what you'd see coming at you anyway.

[pmulcahy11b]

The easiest solution for the 37mm armed US tanks/afv's would be to just fabricate some adapters to place a M2HB in it's place. I bet you could fabricate the adapters with the tools and materials found in a basic machine shop.

The 50-cal would have plenty of range and hitting power for what you'd see coming at you anyway.

There are some light autocannons, such as the 20mm Oerlikon KAB, which can be mounted and used as easily as an M-2HB, except for the longer barrel length.

[Targan]

There are some light autocannons, such as the 20mm Oerlikon KAB, which can be mounted and used as easily as an M-2HB, except for the longer barrel length.

ASP 30. 'Nuff said.

[HorseSoldier]

Both would be nice, but keep in mind WW2 era turrets were tight for WW2 era people (though I suppose by 2000 most folks would be making Depression era manual laborers look husky and corn fed), and the problem isn't just the gun it's the ammo, the feed chutes to get it from storage to the gun, and such. Shoe horning all that into a space formerly occupied by a manually loaded single shot gun is going to be a pretty major engineering undertaking.

Realistically, if a government/cantonment/whatever had access to a lot of manufacturing and machining capability, they'd probably be better served dropping in a whole new turret into vintage light AFVs rather than trying to jury rig a less optimal solution. (Tanks could be a different story, since I don't think anyone circa 2000 -- with the possible exception of the French and maybe Japanese -- has the capability to fabricate new MBT turrets).