Grenade Luncher ranges?

[weswood]

Going by the rules, an M203 (just for example) has a Range of 100 and an Indirect Fire Range of 400

The listed range of 100m is supposed to be short, medium would be 200m, long would be 400m, and extreme would be 800m, yet the IFR range is 400m. What I've read the max effective range is 400m, if I remember right.

I've never fired a grenade launcher. At what point does it go from direct fire to indirect fire

I'm thinking anything under 100m would count as direct fire, from 100 to 400 m would be indirect.

Thanks

[Panther Al]

Oh, good question. Every time I lobbed one, its been indirect, and I never even tried beyond 400m. The very few times I fired directly, its always been with rubber or pellet loads that didn't have the capability of indirect fire. Well, effective indirect fire at anyrate. Like you, I always thought the range given for IDF was the max, so perhaps the ranges for GL's in the direct role need to be adjusted. Max direct, in my opinion, is about 200, so range gates would be 200, 100, 50, and 25. Which feels kinda right. Though, I agree, past 100m the indirect/direct starts getting real fuzzy.

[Fusilier]

Indirect rules come into play where there is no line of sight between you and the target. Otherwise if you can see it, its direct.

[Legbreaker]

For most hand held grenade launchers of the 40mm variety, you can forget about trying to fire beyond 400 metres unless you've got some serious gale force wind assistance.

In my experience it's actually not that hard to hit a stationary target even at 300+ metres with an M203 or M79. Therefore, it seems quite logical to me anyway, that direct fire range bands would indeed top out at Long. Forget about trying to hit a moving/dodging target at long range though - there's anything up to several seconds between firing and impact. On the other hand it's an area effect weapon, near enough may be good enough.

Note that a grenade flies quite slowly. It's possible if you're reasonably quick, to fire one indirect on a higher than 45 degree angle, reload, and fire a second round direct and have them both hit the target at almost the same moment. This technique has been used to confuse an enemy into believing there's twice as many grenadiers as there really are. It's also great for laying muliple blasts on an exposed target area without giving them a lot of time to take cover.

[Panther Al]

Note that a grenade flies quite slowly. It's possible if you're reasonably quick, to fire one indirect on a higher than 45 degree angle, reload, and fire a second round direct and have them both hit the target at almost the same moment. This technique has been used to confuse an enemy into believing there's twice as many grenadiers as there really are. It's also great for laying muliple blasts on an exposed target area without giving them a lot of time to take cover.

And you know you are stuck with a bunch of bored cavalrymen who got a few cases of the training paint rounds, trying to see who can get the most hang time.

[Abbott Shaull]

Gee and they wonder why the 40mm GL is called a poor man mortar...

[Legbreaker]

Typical cavalrymen using paint when the hardcore infantry like myself are using HEDP.

[HorseSoldier]

Max ord for a 203 puts the round about 400 meters down range. It simply won't go further than that (and really probably 300-400 should be extreme range with one).

[Abbott Shaull]

Yeah kind ironic that really the max effective range of the M203 wasn't much further than what they trained on rifle for the M4 and M16 was 300m. I don't know if they train for ranges that are further now, but then again with some units drawing out old M14s for platoon/marksmen. I am sure these people are being trained to his target at further ranges with their new weapons.

Like I said one of the interesting things is that everyone in our units had M16 in the Arms Room, even if they were SAW or M60 gunners. I am sure these weapons would follow the company so when they were in 'secured forward' areas they still would be able to carry weapon, but not the heavier one. Then these areas would be secured with enough weapon emplacements...

[Canadian Army]

M79 Grenade Launcher

I found this on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M79_grenade_launcher).

"Some US Navy SEALs and Army Special Forces in Iraq have been seen using the M79 in recent years, most likely due to its greater accuracy and range compared to the M203 (350m effective versus 150 m effective on the M203)."

[Abbott Shaull]

I found this on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M79_grenade_launcher).

"Some US Navy SEALs and Army Special Forces in Iraq have been seen using the M79 in recent years, most likely due to its greater accuracy and range compared to the M203 (350m effective versus 150 m effective on the M203)."

Two reasons.

1 is the the accuracy.

2 is that with their new shining M4's, well it not well suited for the over/under combination which in itself is part of the reason why the M203 effective range is so limited. Especially for direct fire the sights for the M203 have to take into account the weapon above the barrel. I thought US Army had made PIP in which the 203 could be stand alone weapon with stock of it own, or place in it standard under the barrel configuration with M16 or M4.

Or another point is the ease to reload and speed it has over the M203 too.

[Legbreaker]

Although the M79 is in my opinion a bit more accurate than the M203 at longer ranges, the M203 still has a MUCH better effect range than the 150 metres indicated.
In practical use, the only real advantage the M79 has over the M203 is that it is of the break open type rather than slide open and therefore can use longer rounds. The downside of a separate grenade launcher is it's a pain to carry with a rifle (but far from impossible).

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Just to add my 20 cents worth...
As has already been mentioned, direct fire is not about the weapon range but about your ability to see the target. If you can see the target at 40m it's direct fire, if you can see the target at 400m it's still direct fire. If you can't see the target it's indirect fire.

The difference in range between the M79 and the M203 has everything to do with the sights as mentioned by Abbott Shaull but the other critical factor is the barrel length.
Barrel Length: -
M79 - 35.7cm (14in)
M203, M203PI & M203A2 - 30.5cm (12in)
M203A1 - 22.9cm (9in)

The 40mm low pressure grenades are also low muzzle velocity (about 76m/s for most rounds if I remember my training right) so wind can really play havoc with them and thus effect the max range. In fact, they move so slow you can see them in flight when you fire them and a quick operator can get 2 or 3 in the air at the same time to cause the same sort of effect that Legbreaker mentioned (although in this case the grenades are detonating a few seconds apart).

[leonpoi]

I'm thinking anything under 100m would count as direct fire, from 100 to 400 m would be indirect.

Thanks

To try to answer your question - nothing is official, but in a few previous posts this is the conclusion that was made. 100m is direct; +100 - 400 is indirect.

Now the next question is - is up to 100m short range I'd say yes, but I have a house rule that says grenade launchers and large caliber guns etc, hit within d10m on a success and hit the target on a critical success. i.e. 100m is short but a crit success is needed to hit the actual target (thereby causing contact damage and blowing them to hell - otherwise within d10m and still within concussion and frag range). [edit] on a success large caliber guns hit large targets like tanks and vehicles.

[Legbreaker]

Once again, it's easy for an average shooter to hit even at longer ranges with a grenade launcher.

Indirect fire is according to all the rule sets is not easy to hit a target.

Indirect fire rules should only apply when the sights cannot be used as intended - ie plunging fire with the weapon held at greater than 45 degrees or if the target is not directly observed. ALL fire using the sights is direct.