The Military Deployments of T2K

[dragoon500ly]

I'm not an expert on the NZ military either, although I am a Kiwi so I know where to look for info. From recent historical evidence, a large deployment out of NZ is unlikely. We simply don't have the capabilities to support a large operation out-of-country; we generally piggy-back off of others.

The way I see it, the first Asian front to kick off (say, Korea) would get some NZers, especially if Aus sent troops. First in would be the SAS, and probably a medical detachment, and some Hercs doing support work. If there was a larger need, regular troops would come a bit later (would likely need training and reserve call-up).

Then if Indonesia went off, much of that might get called home, or to Australia, to support from there. The Navy would lend some support, likely a frigate joining the Aussies. And we still had a combat airforce then, so No. 2 Squadron (upgraded Skyhawks) would probably be helping too (No. 2 was equipped with ex-Royal Aus. Navy A4s, and based in NSW, Aus. in the 90's).

All up, I would say a squadron of SAS, a battalion of regulars (after training), some support troops, a few Hercs, a frigate and No. 2 Squadron would all that would end up outside of NZ.

Oh, and we kinda got booted out of ANZUS over that whole "no nukes" thing Wonder if Marsden Point oil refinery received some attention nevertheless.....

Andrew

I remember reading in a Infantry Journal that New Zealand's commitment to Korea was a infantry company and a artillery battery, to be attached to a Australian deployment, this was back in 76/77...

[Abbott Shaull]

GDW dropped the ball on the artillery battalion attached to 6ACCB, the only place I could anywhere that even mentions doing this was an article in the Field Artillery Journal that talked about assigning a MLRS battalion to them for Deep Strike Missions. This is the only place this has ever been mentioned.

The make up of 6ACCB during the Twilight period was four "cavalry" squadrons (none of which had 6th Cavalry) that were renamed attack helicopter battalions. Unlike the 11th/12th Aviation Brigades which have General Support (OH-58C), a Combat Support (UH-60), a attack helicopter (AH-64) and a medium helicopter (CH-47) battalions.

III Corps for the REFORGER role was always intended as the counter attack force, thats why it had two armored divisions (1st Cavalry and 2nd) as well as the 6ACCB.

Evil Grin...the name of the XVIII Airborne Corps Aviation Brigade, is the 18th Aviation Brigade.....setup was the same as 11th/12th, but lacked the CH-47 battalion.

Silly 18th Airborne Corps...Funny how lot of their support were called 18th..... You would think since I posted at Fort Bragg I would remember this, oh wait a minute I was off Division land. It is strange how Corps, Division, and Special Forces were separated by common uniform...lol

Yeah about III Corps it funny that in the States it had 4 Armor Division (2 posing as Mechanized Divisions, with only 2 Divisions having full compliment of units on active duty with these having one Brigade each Forward Deployed) with one Mechanized Division. Yeah I know two of these Division were due to go to the V and VII Corps once they got over there and their equipment. The thing is when the III Corps was fully over there the US Army Europe would have 3 Corps with each with 2 Armor Divisions, 1 Mechanized Division, 1 Armor Cavalry Regiment, and 1 Aviation Brigade of some type.

Another thing I find ironic is that the 3rd Armor and 1st Cavalry were set up with 3 Armor Brigades instead of 2 Armor and 1 Mechanized Brigades.

Like I said, the 194th and 197th as well as the two Brigades from the 24th Mechanized Division would be sent in place of the Round Out Brigades and these Brigades would be used to make other units.

Much like part of the plan with Light Infantry Division was to ship out new Infantry Brigades thrown together at Benning from the Infantry School paired up with other Artillery and Support units to help bring these Divisions up to manpower requirements.

*Shrug*

[dragoon500ly]

Considering that the 1st Cavalry and 2nd Armored were organized per the pure Division 86 configuration, that is 6 armd and 4 mech battalions. The intent was to have two tank heavy brigades (2 and 1) and one balanced brigade (2 and 2).

Both divisions, along with the 1st and 4th Mechanized Divisions badly needed the roundout brigades, but even the most conservative estimate had them not ready for 30-60 days; so the feeding in of the 194th Armd, 197th Mech into the two armored divisions made plenty of sense.

The "German" divisions; 1st and 3rd Armored Divisions, 3rd and 8th (and the old 4th) Mechanized Infantry Divisions used a modified TO&E. For the armored divisions it was six armored and 5 mech battalions and for the mech divisions it was the exact opposite.

[Abbott Shaull]

Considering that the 1st Cavalry and 2nd Armored were organized per the pure Division 86 configuration, that is 6 armd and 4 mech battalions. The intent was to have two tank heavy brigades (2 and 1) and one balanced brigade (2 and 2).

Both divisions, along with the 1st and 4th Mechanized Divisions badly needed the roundout brigades, but even the most conservative estimate had them not ready for 30-60 days; so the feeding in of the 194th Armd, 197th Mech into the two armored divisions made plenty of sense.

The "German" divisions; 1st and 3rd Armored Divisions, 3rd and 8th (and the old 4th) Mechanized Infantry Divisions used a modified TO&E. For the armored divisions it was six armored and 5 mech battalions and for the mech divisions it was the exact opposite.

Yeah, it was one of those things seeing what GDW had publish, what was actually in the Army OOB at the time, even until after 1991 makes one wonder if something had happen where the US wasn't fighting on two fronts, but several more, where they would come up with the manpower to do so...

[Legbreaker]

All up, I would say a squadron of SAS, a battalion of regulars (after training), some support troops, a few Hercs, a frigate and No. 2 Squadron would all that would end up outside of NZ.

Hmm, I'm thinking the NZ Battalion would replace one of the two Australian infantry battalions in the Korea brigade with the personel of the 2nd Australian battalion rolled over into the first to make up numbers....

[Legbreaker]

...where they would come up with the manpower to do so...

Conscription. Lots and lots of conscription.
Post nuke the military may even be seen by many as the one sure way of putting food in your belly. You might find many, many volunteers post nuke both for this and paying back the "Reds" for nuking their friends and families.

[dragoon500ly]

Conscription. Lots and lots of conscription.
Post nuke the military may even be seen by many as the one sure way of putting food in your belly. You might find many, many volunteers post nuke both for this and paying back the "Reds" for nuking their friends and families.

Sadly, I am reminded of a man-in-street interview in New York City on 9/11...the reporter asked his subject what his feelings were concerning the fall of the twin towers and the reports that terrorists were responsible. The response chilled me...."The United States deserves this for our criminal support of Israel and our oppression of the Arab peoples."

Just how many people will say that the Soviets were justified in using nukes on the US.......

[Legbreaker]

There will definitely be some who feel that way, but unlike 911, the US will have a year or more in which to flood the media with propaganda. I rather doubt many would be all that sympathetic towards the enemy powers.

[dragoon500ly]

There will definitely be some who feel that way, but unlike 911, the US will have a year or more in which to flood the media with propaganda. I rather doubt many would be all that sympathetic towards the enemy powers.

You forget that it is the enemy who resorts to propaganda, the Allies have "sources of information" to remember a famous line from WWII.

Considering the "TraLaLaLa Land" that some of my fellow citizens dwell in, I do find it reasonable to believe that a percentage of the population will protest the war, actively support the Soviet position and may actually make an effort to sabotage the war effort. It happened in World War Two, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm, the various peacekeeping missions in the former Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and there rumblings on the internet about Libya. Now why on earth would those people change their stripes

And yes I am including those who live in the People's Republic of California! Don't forget that a certain city located near a certain bay has taken out city ordnances protesting the US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention banning pet stores as well as the sale of certain fast food items in their foggy city....a rather infamous university there is noted as a hot bed of extremism, there is a running joke that the frequent earthquakes that rattle the area may also be causing severe brain trauma!

Besides, their outlook is another great tool for a GM. Just picture the player's party running a recon mission against the invading Mexican Army stumbling over a line of Berkley students protesting the US policy against illegals!

[HorseSoldier]

Given how the Twilight War involves some sort of murky circumstances I could see how a percentage of folks in western democracies would be critical of the NATO entry into the war and feel that the Warsaw Pact was the victim of aggression. How prevalent Good question. Post nukes it might not be an opinion to express too loudly in mixed company, but could also be a rallying point for antigovernment types trying to step into the power vacuum.

[Legbreaker]

....a rather infamous university there is noted as a hot bed of extremism...

Obviously a good justification for a brutal dictatorship and incendiary weapons.

[dragoon500ly]

So basically you would have MilGov, CivGov, New America, the various independent warlords and bandits and then you would have the various anti-Nuke, anti-military, anti-US involvement overseas, anti-early morning cartoons, anti-McDonalds and anti-ad nasuem.

Like I said, lots of things for a GM to through at the players.

[Legbreaker]

...you would have the various anti-Nuke, anti-military, anti-US involvement overseas, anti-early morning cartoons, anti-McDonalds and anti-ad nasuem.

Sounds like life as normal in the US.

[dragoon500ly]

Obviously a good justification for a brutal dictatorship and incendiary weapons.

There was always a running joke along the lines of instead of taking the right turn into Fort Irwin and the National Training Center...just hang a left and introduce UC-Berkerly to the joys of a full scale armor assault!!!

[dragoon500ly]

Sounds like life as normal in the US.

We do kind of resemble that. Now all we need is a couple of talking heads to tell everyone how it should be done and we are set!