OT: Not a good place for a firefight

[copeab]

Two shootings this morning aboard a docked British nuclear sub.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110408/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_submarine

[dragoon500ly]

OK, I can see a sentry at the foot of the gangway armed with an assault rifle...I can even see a sentry or two up in the sail/walking patrol armed with an assault rifle...but I have to ask just what the CO was thinking when he had a sentry inside the submarine armed with an assault rifle

[Fusilier]

but I have to ask just what the CO was thinking when he had a sentry inside the submarine armed with an assault rifle

It doesn't say that he did.

[Grimace]

"Most things in here don't react well with bullets."

[Abbott Shaull]

OK, I can see a sentry at the foot of the gangway armed with an assault rifle...I can even see a sentry or two up in the sail/walking patrol armed with an assault rifle...but I have to ask just what the CO was thinking when he had a sentry inside the submarine armed with an assault rifle

I would totally agree. Even with visitors, I think having an armed assault rifle on board in the sub at any time is a no brainer...

[dragoon500ly]

I know the Navy pukes always had armed sentries whenever their ship was carrying nukes; from what I hear though, the interior sentries were armed with shotguns/pistols...sure you will have damage from the projectiles...but someone dumping a mag of 5.56mm would surely do more damage to them "things that shouldn't be shot at".

If nothing else, the ease that this sailor was disarmed is a strong arguement against issuing assault rifles for onboard sentries...

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Back in the early 80's an uncle of mine was forbidden entry on a civilian sub tour - his belt-buckle* was a life-sized .38 snub nose profile in heavy relief (at a glance, looked like a .38). He went back to his car, removed it, and came back and after a quick pat-down got the tour.


...


*=this was the early 80s and ridiculous huge brass belt-buckles were the norm in FL.

[LBraden]

Okay, from what I have heard, it sounds like it was a 9mm pistol that was used, not a shotgun or SA-80 family.
And apparently it was a civvy who was involved in engaging and disarming the seaman.

[Ramjam]

That's the problem with us Brits, it's either a 9mm or a 5.56. There is nothing in between.
Shotguns are not a offical weapon of the British armed forces which does seem abit silly when you what abit more firepower than a 9mm but don't want to go over the top with a SA80 (like on a nuke boat).
But with all the cut backs the British forces are facing at the moment it could be worse. The guards could be armed with pick-axe handles like they were back when I started to serve.

[dragoon500ly]

That's the problem with us Brits, it's either a 9mm or a 5.56. There is nothing in between.
Shotguns are not a offical weapon of the British armed forces which does seem abit silly when you what abit more firepower than a 9mm but don't want to go over the top with a SA80 (like on a nuke boat).
But with all the cut backs the British forces are facing at the moment it could be worse. The guards could be armed with pick-axe handles like they were back when I started to serve.

With the new defense cuts, one gets the impression that a broken beer bottle may soon be the standard issue weapon!

[perardua]

That's the problem with us Brits, it's either a 9mm or a 5.56. There is nothing in between.
Shotguns are not a offical weapon of the British armed forces which does seem abit silly when you what abit more firepower than a 9mm but don't want to go over the top with a SA80 (like on a nuke boat).
But with all the cut backs the British forces are facing at the moment it could be worse. The guards could be armed with pick-axe handles like they were back when I started to serve.

I was going to point this out too - for the most part L85s are the most common weapon used for any purpose in the British forces, including on ships. Generally, if you're not in an infantry role of some kind, you won't see anything other than a rifle or maybe a GPMG. It's only in the last few years that pistols have become a big thing for us (as I've mentioned before, my squadron went from about 8 pistols to 160 pistols when we deployed).

Shotguns are used by the British forces, however, and have been for years. You see them a lot in jungle warfare training, and infantry sections in Afghanistan generally have a shotgun each for the pointman due to the close quarters that can be found in Helmand.

[Abbott Shaull]

I was going to point this out too - for the most part L85s are the most common weapon used for any purpose in the British forces, including on ships. Generally, if you're not in an infantry role of some kind, you won't see anything other than a rifle or maybe a GPMG. It's only in the last few years that pistols have become a big thing for us (as I've mentioned before, my squadron went from about 8 pistols to 160 pistols when we deployed).

Shotguns are used by the British forces, however, and have been for years. You see them a lot in jungle warfare training, and infantry sections in Afghanistan generally have a shotgun each for the pointman due to the close quarters that can be found in Helmand.

Yeah it amazing how many unofficial weapons can get around...

[perardua]

No (or very few) unofficial weapons in British units, as a rule - our lack of a gun culture makes it hard to do. It's just that new, additional weapons are issued out of a pool for ops - someone in the MoD decided everyone in the squadron needed a sidearm, so we all got pistols (which the majority of us chose not to carry). As soon as we came home, those weapons were handed over to the next squadron.