*Post*-TDM armor production.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

What, on any level, would occur

I'm guessing little to none, and the "little" would constitute more "building" technicals (clearing out local dealerships of H2s and H3s and hauling 'em down to whatever passes in the state as an armory for repair/stripping and arming) and cobbling together vehicles out of what was left over of kits or Anniston-bound repair cases.

Your thoughts, all

[Abbott Shaull]

I think whatever production factories that weren't wiped out and still had parts would continue for the time being to product until they either ran out of parts, which under the circumstances wouldn't take long. As you get further from TDM, even the refits would stop due to cost/lack of getting vehicle to depot to repairs and spare parts.

[Legbreaker]

I agree. Once the ready supply of materials is exhausted, the only "production" carried out would involve stripping damaged vehicles and fixing up others or cobbling together makeshift substitutes.

[Arrissen]

There must be places/ countries in the world largely unaffected by the war who make AFV's besides France and Mexico (for a time), any thoughts

[HorseSoldier]

Well besides France, Japan survives largely intact and has domestic production for their more or less Leo 2 knock off and other AFVs. I see them being movers and shakers all over the Pacific trying to keep themselves afloat in terns of fuel, food and other essentials but suspect they'd switch their production over to some cheaper light tank -- they mostly need fire support for COIN sort of stuff and holding key facilities that is fairly easy to ship and cheap to keep running.

[Legbreaker]

Of course Japan does have that pesky constitutional issue with not sending military outside their own boundaries. They <i>may</i> be able to produce a few vehicles, but only provided they can get the raw materials from elsewhere, and EMP hasn't fried their energy production capabilities as it does elsewhere on the planet.

Note also that nukes were first used relatively close to Japan in China many months before continental US felt their heat, and continued to be used for quite some time.

[Arrissen]

Well that's true about Japan, but I think that once the nukes fly all bets are off and they could do whatever the hell they like. Besides the only reason they weren't "allowed" to deployed O/S was because of US policy/ enforcement after WWII, who having seen how very frightening and naughty they can be, decided that it was probably best if they just stayed home and did what they were told. Kind of like a punk kid who's been grounded. And, you know they sure know how to bounce back.

What about South America Is there much info about what happened there in T2K A few countries there make AFV's.

[Legbreaker]

I wouldn't write off the Japanese reluctance to deploy abroad. Look at what happened when a medical unit was sent to the middle east a couple of years ago - it almost brought down the government even though they weren't combat troops but there for humanitarian reasons.

No, Japanese troops would remain firmly within Japanese borders unless something absolutely catastrophic occurred.

This isn't to say their produce wouldn't be exported or that western units wouldn't be welcome to spend R&R in the country (while transportation to and fro was still possible).

[HorseSoldier]

.

Once the nukes fly I think the Japanese constitution's restrictions on expeditonary military operations goes out the window fast -- but not so much in the sense of them trying to invade much of anywhere so much as establishing defended trading enclaves, piracy suppression at sea, and expeditionary work on land against warlords and such who get in the way. Just to feed the nation's population at present levels requires they continue to be food importers, fuel is obviously a desperate essential and all sorts of other raw materials are likewise going to have to come in from overseas. The JSDF is going to get pressed into service fighting to keep trade functional in the Pacific Rim, more a la the USMC's pre WW2 banana campaigns than the Greater East Asia Coprosperity Redux.

And they're inherently going to be overstretched in that role, so I see them trying to tie their efforts into some sort of coalition with stable friendly governments and pseudo governments that provide patches of stability like the surviving Australian government, New Zealand, the US garrison on Hawaii and the US/Canadian enclaves in the Pacific Northwest.

I could see them playing ball with the Soviet remnants in North America and elsewhere, though in my personal take on the situation in Alaska circa 2001, I have the Japanese occupying the Cook Inlet oil fields south of Anchorage (not as impressive as the North Slope, but not dependent in the pipeline) and garrisoning it with about a brigade -- one JGSDF battalion plus American mercenaries recruited out of Korea. But I see that as kind of about as heavy as they rollon foreign deployments, with more common stuff being a platoon or company here and there at trading posts or as ships troops, and the AK deal not being the only use of stranded ex-pat mercenaries. (which also seems like a cool potential campaign idea for PCs).

[Adm.Lee]

No, Japanese troops would remain firmly within Japanese borders unless something absolutely catastrophic occurred.

Something MORE catastrophic than World War III

IMO, I was surprised that Japanese forces haven't appeared to assist the Chinese in Manchuria vs. the Soviets, or replaced/reinforced the US forces in Korea in 1998.

AFAIK, their navy should be intact, and I can't recall if they were nuked much or not. If they have armor production facilities, they would need steel & other components, which would have to be bought from... China or wherever their peacetime sources were. Selling that armor to the US and shipping it to either the Korean or California fronts seems like a winner of an idea in 1998 or 1999.

Regarding them being major regional players, I quite agree. If they are undamaged, they could certainly make a stab at being the power of the Pacific, as long as they can keep the oil flowing.

Anyway, back to armored production, I do recall from reading the nukes list that the Lima, Ohio plant for making M1's is near the top of the list. I don't recall where the Bradley/Devers AMGeneral plant is.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

If we go with the RDF/LT (LAV-75 and variants - that's a wonderful thread that got resurrected) as being produced by AAI primarily (which we can: they're the ones who proposed it back in the 80s) then the production facilities are just north of Baltimore, 60mi. north of DC. They might (MIGHT) be OK. But probably not.

[Abbott Shaull]

Brazil and South Africa come to mind as arms exporters.

[Abbott Shaull]

Something MORE catastrophic than World War III

IMO, I was surprised that Japanese forces haven't appeared to assist the Chinese in Manchuria vs. the Soviets, or replaced/reinforced the US forces in Korea in 1998.

AFAIK, their navy should be intact, and I can't recall if they were nuked much or not. If they have armor production facilities, they would need steel & other components, which would have to be bought from... China or wherever their peacetime sources were. Selling that armor to the US and shipping it to either the Korean or California fronts seems like a winner of an idea in 1998 or 1999.

Regarding them being major regional players, I quite agree. If they are undamaged, they could certainly make a stab at being the power of the Pacific, as long as they can keep the oil flowing.

Anyway, back to armored production, I do recall from reading the nukes list that the Lima, Ohio plant for making M1's is near the top of the list. I don't recall where the Bradley/Devers AMGeneral plant is.

The one thing about Japan is getting raw materials after TDM.

[dragoon500ly]

Something MORE catastrophic than World War III

IMO, I was surprised that Japanese forces haven't appeared to assist the Chinese in Manchuria vs. the Soviets, or replaced/reinforced the US forces in Korea in 1998.

AFAIK, their navy should be intact, and I can't recall if they were nuked much or not. If they have armor production facilities, they would need steel & other components, which would have to be bought from... China or wherever their peacetime sources were. Selling that armor to the US and shipping it to either the Korean or California fronts seems like a winner of an idea in 1998 or 1999.

Regarding them being major regional players, I quite agree. If they are undamaged, they could certainly make a stab at being the power of the Pacific, as long as they can keep the oil flowing.

Anyway, back to armored production, I do recall from reading the nukes list that the Lima, Ohio plant for making M1's is near the top of the list. I don't recall where the Bradley/Devers AMGeneral plant is.

Considering that Japan has to import virtually all of its raw material, I think a good case could be argued for them siting naval bases to cover critical areas, of course, this would require troops to protect the bases, etc. This would, in turn, mean that they would try to coordinate with local governments, reinforcing them with military and economic aid.

[Abbott Shaull]

I also think the M1 Plant in Warren, was also a target which in the all the timelines would still be producing M1s. Gee to think one of the place I applied to work sits literally outside of this former plant. So glad the cold war is over. Don't know if I could live that close to target rich environment after leaving Soo Locks area.