FBU involvement in Africa

[Mohoender]

We have talked a lot of the French army in Europe, Quebec... but the FBU is facing a major problem under the Twilight war. It might still produce electricity, it is very likely to have a fair capability when it comes to industrial production but it faces a major supply problem.

It probably has oil for the armed forces (the use of oil should be forbidden to the civilians) exploiting limited domestic oil fields and probably stll getting oil from Camerroon/Gabon. Coal shouldn't be a problem has many closed mines will reopen. This should be true for Iron and Bauxite.

However, raw materials such as copper would be in very short supply.

As a result, I would expect the French army tro be very heavily involved in Africa to secure what access it already has (Senegal, Cte d'Ivoire, Cameroon/Gabon) but also to put its hand on ressources in countries such as Nigeria (gas and oil) and Zaire/RDC (copper and minerals).

Link must be built with South Africa and a full collaboration can be developped between both countries because of ressources in South Africa but also because access to Cape Town might be vital to maintain control over La Reunion and New Caledonia.

Tunisia has been discussed already and I still think that it might join the Union.

Morocco might be collaborating with France as well and recent events open perpectives toward Libya.

Just a number of ideas

[Rainbow Six]

Just having a quick look at some of the areas you've suggested...Katanga Province of the Democratic Republic of Congo looks interesting...according to wiki it has supplies of copper, cobalt, tin, radium, diamonds, and uranium, although extraction might be a problem - looks like you're many hundreds of kilometres from any seaports.

If French troops are in Gabon and Cameroon there's probably a fair chance they may be in Equatorial Guinea as well - substantial oil reserves were discovered there in 1996 IRL (assuming it didn't get nuked of course).

Libya is mentioned in Mediterranean Cruise...I think it may have been nuked, but can't be certain.

[Raellus]

I have French "advisors" in Kenya. I also have the French trading enough AFVs to the U.S. (for the 173rd BCT's light armored battalion which, along with the rest of the BCT, is deployed to Kenya) for a share of the fuel produced by the refineries around Mombasa. Frank Frey came up with the concept and I just added the details. He was cool with it.

[boogiedowndonovan]

I have French "advisors" in Kenya. I also have the French trading enough AFVs to the U.S. (for the 173rd BCT's light armored battalion which, along with the rest of the BCT, is deployed to Kenya) for a share of the fuel produced by the refineries around Mombasa. Frank Frey came up with the concept and I just added the details. He was cool with it.

sounds interesting, what do you have the light armored battalion equipped with AMX-10RC

[Raellus]

sounds interesting, what do you have the light armored battalion equipped with AMX-10RC

I like the AMX-10RC but I went a different route*. Here's the pertinent section from my write-up. A much more complete write up can be found here: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...ion+proud+lion

French Involvement

The French government wanted access to the fuel produced by the Kenyan refineries. They offered the American government French-made AFVs originally en route to its African client states in exchange for a share of the fuel produced in Kenya. The U.S., unable to adequately provide replacement vehicles for the 173rd BCT, accepted the offer. The shipment was diverted to Mombasa, arriving in early August, 2007. The 3/503 (motorized) henceforth began operations equipped with Panhard VBLs, VABs, and ERC 90 F4s.

(The 173rd BCT lost its organic vehicles [mostly HUMVEEs, FAVs, and a few LAV75A2 Ridgways] when a Soviet [or Italian] submarine sank the ship transporting them to Kenya.)

*The reason that I didn't choose the more powerful AMX-10RC is that there it currently has only 3 users (including France), none of them in Sub-Saharan Africa. The ERC 90 F4, on the other hand, has 4 African users so it seemed a more likely option.

[Cdnwolf]

I would imagine the French would have seize the oil rigs in the Gulf of St Lawrence and ones off Nova Scotia to help its fuel problems.

[Legbreaker]

They do that and they're starting an international incident nobody wants, even if they are basically "friends" with Quebec.
Definitely NOT an option to go seizing another countries property, especially when it's a loooong way from your own borders.

[Mohoender]

*The reason that I didn't choose the more powerful AMX-10RC is that there it currently has only 3 users (including France), none of them in Sub-Saharan Africa. The ERC 90 F4, on the other hand, has 4 African users so it seemed a more likely option.

I agree with your choice except that there were only 3 African users for the ERC-90 (Cte d'Ivoire, Gabon and Tchad/Nigeria is a recent addition, post-2000). Moreover, models might not be F4 but F1 and you could have some ERC-20 "Kriss" with them. The VAB could be the six wheeled versions but there are three more possibilities for the APC: Panhard VCR, the APC version of the ACMAT VLRA and the VBRG. By the way, I would add the VLRA to the list in 4 and 6 wheeled versions.

Surplus AML-90 could be sent as well.

[Mohoender]

I would imagine the French would have seize the oil rigs in the Gulf of St Lawrence and ones off Nova Scotia to help its fuel problems.

Too far, too hard and too risky (as Leg pointed out)

[Mohoender]

Just having a quick look at some of the areas you've suggested...Katanga Province of the Democratic Republic of Congo looks interesting...according to wiki it has supplies of copper, cobalt, tin, radium, diamonds, and uranium, although extraction might be a problem - looks like you're many hundreds of kilometres from any seaports.

You are right but it is already the world's main copper extraction area and all the needed equipment is already there. They'll have no problem to find the needed engineers, technicians and even workers as most had been Belgian and French. Location is indeed an issue but shouldn't be that much of a problem under T2K. The French need to secure the lane to the sea and I have no doubt that they would conduct genocides on the population trying to oppose them. The wealth of these deposits largely justifies it. Moreover, the copper is already exported (and has been for a long time) and, therefore, you'll find there all the needed transport infrastructures.

Mobutu who had been supported by US (until the 1990's) since the beginning might pose a serious threat but his army was incompetent at best.

Anyway, I just asked my cousin. If he answers my email, you'll know how the minerals are bought to the coasts. He has been working as an engineer in Kolwezi (as did his father) and his wife is from Katanga.

[Raellus]

I agree with your choice except that there were only 3 African users for the ERC-90 (Cte d'Ivoire, Gabon and Tchad/Nigeria is a recent addition, post-2000). Moreover, models might not be F4 but F1 and you could have some ERC-20 "Kriss" with them. The VAB could be the six wheeled versions but there are three more possibilities for the APC: Panhard VCR, the APC version of the ACMAT VLRA and the VBRG. By the way, I would add the VLRA to the list in 4 and 6 wheeled versions.

Surplus AML-90 could be sent as well.

Thanks for the info and the suggestions. I like the idea of adding a couple of ERC-20 Kriss to the mix (if I go with the ERC-90). The AML-90 is also a good choice. IIRC, the main reason I didn't go with that is that it looked like production ended well before the Twilight War.

I must admit that I chose the VAB because I really like the way that it looks, especially the four-wheeled version. In my opinion, the Panhard VCR has got to be one of the ugliest wheeled APCs in the world.

As I was envisioning it, the VBLs would do reconaissance and possibly AT duty (armed with TOW IIs), the VALs would act as standard APCs and possibly mortar carriers, and the ERC-90s would provide direct fire support for the whole bunch.

I also envisioned a few trucks as being part of the shipment (but I kind of gave up on researching exactly which models).

On a side note, it would be an interesting, somewhat ironic, coincidence if the U.S. operated ERC-90s, since the Mexican army would presumably be using their own ERC-90s against U.S. forces in the American southwest.

[Mohoender]

The AML-90 is also a good choice. IIRC, the main reason I didn't go with that is that it looked like production ended well before the Twilight War.

In fact, several hundreds had just been phased out by the French the last being taken out of service in the mid-1990's. Moreover, if production had ended for France, the production lines were maintained for exports until 2002 when the production definitely ceased. By the 1990's production is rated "as required".

[Mohoender]

I also envisioned a few trucks as being part of the shipment (but I kind of gave up on researching exactly which models).

Outsdide of the ACMAT VLRA, trucks could be Berliet GB 8KT, Marmon-Simca and Hotchkiss Jeep. Still the VLRA is my favored choice because the vehicle is fun, because it has been engineered for Africa in the first place and because it can be used as a platform for various type of use (including anti-air and command).

Here is a link with numerous views of the VLRA. Also search for the UN African HMMWV, it is interesting and perfectly relevant to T2K.

http://www.google.fr/searchum=1&hl=fr&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Afr%3Aofficial&channel=s&biw=1280&bih=878&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=VLRA&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

[Rainbow Six]

You are right but it is already the world's main copper extraction area and all the needed equipment is already there. They'll have no problem to find the needed engineers, technicians and even workers as most had been Belgian and French. Location is indeed an issue but shouldn't be that much of a problem under T2K. The French need to secure the lane to the sea and I have no doubt that they would conduct genocides on the population trying to oppose them. The wealth of these deposits largely justifies it. Moreover, the copper is already exported (and has been for a long time) and, therefore, you'll find there all the needed transport infrastructures.

Mobutu who had been supported by US (until the 1990's) since the beginning might pose a serious threat but his army was incompetent at best.

Anyway, I just asked my cousin. If he answers my email, you'll know how the minerals are bought to the coasts. He has been working as an engineer in Kolwezi (as did his father) and his wife is from Katanga.

Sorry, I probably didn't make myself clear there...when I said extraction, I was really meaning the part about getting the minerals from the mine to the coast.

Hopefully your cousin will be able to shed some light on how that's currently done...I for one would certainly be interested.

(As an aside, I now can't get the line about Belgians in the Congo from Billy Joel's We Didn't Start The Fire out of my head...)

[Panther Al]

Thanks for the info and the suggestions. I like the idea of adding a couple of ERC-20 Kriss to the mix (if I go with the ERC-90). The AML-90 is also a good choice. IIRC, the main reason I didn't go with that is that it looked like production ended well before the Twilight War.

I must admit that I chose the VAB because I really like the way that it looks, especially the four-wheeled version. In my opinion, the Panhard VCR has got to be one of the ugliest wheeled APCs in the world.

As I was envisioning it, the VBLs would do reconaissance and possibly AT duty (armed with TOW IIs), the VALs would act as standard APCs and possibly mortar carriers, and the ERC-90s would provide direct fire support for the whole bunch.

I also envisioned a few trucks as being part of the shipment (but I kind of gave up on researching exactly which models).

On a side note, it would be an interesting, somewhat ironic, coincidence if the U.S. operated ERC-90s, since the Mexican army would presumably be using their own ERC-90s against U.S. forces in the American southwest.

I totally agree, the VAB is perhaps one of the better looking wheeled APC's out there, and I like how you have a commonality of parts for the vehicles by and large. Nice thing about the VAB, is it seems to have a variant for about every possible use, so it could fill the majority of roles needed.