War crimes and criminals

[dragoon500ly]

In our debate about war crimes, we overlooked a situation. How can war crimes be prosecuted if one of the involved countries has never signed any of the international conventions

To quote a more recent example, the People's Republic of Vietnam has never signed either convention, therefore their military personnel can not be prosecuted under international law is one argument that I have heard.

Thoughts

[95th Rifleman]

In our debate about war crimes, we overlooked a situation. How can war crimes be prosecuted if one of the involved countries has never signed any of the international conventions

To quote a more recent example, the People's Republic of Vietnam has never signed either convention, therefore their military personnel can not be prosecuted under international law is one argument that I have heard.

Thoughts

Ignore international law.

That's what America did with the unlawful combatants they picke dup in iraq and Afghanistan.

on a side note, American personel are in the same situation as America has not signed on with these conventions either.

[dragoon500ly]

Funny how that works out...no

[95th Rifleman]

Funny how that works out...no

To be honest it makes sense in a coldly logical way. Imagine the propoganda anti-American nations could make out of an American soldier being in the hague

[Mohoender]

In our debate about war crimes, we overlooked a situation. How can war crimes be prosecuted if one of the involved countries has never signed any of the international conventions

That was my point about Japan.

To quote a more recent example, the People's Republic of Vietnam has never signed either convention, therefore their military personnel can not be prosecuted under international law is one argument that I have heard.

Thoughts

Vietnam signed them in 1957. When, it fought the Vietnam War, most troops involved were irregulars who are not concerned by this convention. Moreover, it won the war and the USA never declared war. As a result, there is little legal ground to charge any soldier from the north. If any ground existed, it would probably be against US troops.

[Mohoender]

Ignore international law.

That's what America did with the unlawful combatants they picke dup in iraq and Afghanistan.

on a side note, American personel are in the same situation as America has not signed on with these conventions either.

US signed them in 1955. It didn't sign the treaty extensions such as these considering the use of land mines. Moreover, in the 1980's the ICJ ruled US to be guilty of Terrorism (Among those condemning US for this was the US judge, funny). Then, US court ruled that the ICJ lacked jurisdiction to hear the case (basically ruling that the ICJ lacked jurisdiction to hear any case against US). Later, it vetoed any action in the UN. Still, to days, US remains the only western terrorist country. Whatever, what US did is worse than what you states. US signed these treaties but ruled that it is not entitled to follow them.

The power of a tribunal only resides within this tribunal and US has enough atomic bomb to escape any condamnation (especially as it remains the only country which has proven the world that it will willingly use them).

US tribunals also ruled against the federal state during the Civil War, it didn't change anything. US tribunals ruled the japanese internment camps to be illegal, it didn't change S...t. On the other hand, while Guantanamo was set up to escape international law, US courts and supreme courts ruled repetedly against that. At last, this is to the honor of the USA.

To make things easier, France had also been guilty of terrorist actions: possible implication in the assassination of Mehdi Ben Barka and sinking of the Rainbow Warrior (1 dead) for exemple (more can be found). Of course, this is all "Raison d'Etat". What amaze me is that people remain confident in their governments.

[Mohoender]

Imagine the propoganda anti-American nations could make out of an American soldier being in the hague

Imagine the lesson US could give to the world.

[Fusilier]

It didn't sign the treaty extensions such as these considering the use of land mines.

That is one thing the US government really needs to get on board with.

[ShadoWarrior]

Can we please stop with the America-bashing in this thread by the non-American members Regardless of the truth in many of the points, and the inarguable facts, it's offensive and probably against the board's rules. You wouldn't like it much if people started insulting your own countries, no matter how much they might be correct in their facts.

[Fusilier]

Can we please stop with the America-bashing in this thread by the non-American members Regardless of the truth in many of the points, and the inarguable facts, it's offensive and probably against the board's rules. You wouldn't like it much if people started insulting your own countries, no matter how much they might be correct in their facts.

I'll edit my post here for better clarity...

That is one thing (landmine banning) that the US government, and every other non-signing goverment, really needs to get on board with for the sake of humanity.

Speaking on behalf of my post, I don't think it is insulting, but rather legitimate criticism. I also believe that nothing is immune from legitimate criticism, for obvious reasons. And that most certainly includes my own country. Criticism is how we improve society.

[Abbott Shaull]

The problem with T2K compared to other wars is that there is no winner writing the history. All sides involved will have scores to settle in the years afterward.
As for living and letting live, even today there are nazi hunters seeking out and bringing to trial WWII war criminals, even though the vast majority would have to have died of old age by now.

The efforts to catch, try and punish war criminals may not be made by the international community as a whole, but it will happen. It could be carried out by a coallition of countries, a single country, an organisation or even individuals. As long as somebody can remember being wronged, retribution will be sought.

What we forget is that the crime committed by allied troops that were largely overlooked. I am not saying it was right, and many cases their crimes compared by those committed by the Nazis and Japanese during WWII pale in comparison. There were enough, by the time end of the war, many of the case hadn't been document or the people who knew about didn't survive.

In the case of Twilight 2000 war. There would be no doubt many, but I think after things deteriorated to point where they would be in 2000, yeah some would be looking to hunt down war criminals, but in many cases, I think the people they would be after would already be dead....

[pmulcahy11b]

That's a bit daft mate, if you want to accuse the catholic curch of "war" crimes for helping to smuggle Nazis then you need to level the same accusation at America for operation paperclip when they gathered up as many nazi scientists as they could. Some of these scientists had clear links to the SS, hell a few where in the bloody SS.

Yep, one man's war crime is another man's intelligence operation.

[pmulcahy11b]

The Crusaders where good catholics.

So were the Inquisitors and today's church child molesters.

[Raellus]

Can we please stop with the America-bashing in this thread by the non-American members Regardless of the truth in many of the points, and the inarguable facts, it's offensive and probably against the board's rules. You wouldn't like it much if people started insulting your own countries, no matter how much they might be correct in their facts.

I'm American and I don't recall seeing anything in this thread that would qualify as "America-bashing." There has been some criticism of American actions and policies in this thread, but nothing, unfair, unwarranted, or meant to offend. If you have an issue with a particular post, please PM me and, as moderator, I will take a look at it and run it by my fellow mods.

[95th Rifleman]

I'm American and I don't recall seeing anything in this thread that would qualify as "America-bashing." There has been some criticism of American actions and policies in this thread, but nothing, unfair, unwarranted, or meant to offend. If you have an issue with a particular post, please PM me and, as moderator, I will take a look at it and run it by my fellow mods.

That was my interpretation as well. I'm not out to slag off America but you can't have these discussions and ignore facts because they might upset a few folks.

Hell I'm British and I have no trouble with listing the bad things we have done (I did already in regards to bio-warfare and concentration camps). I could quite happily spend all day listing all the crap we have done in a thousand years of going to interesting places, meeting interesting people and killing them in interesting ways. They are uncomfortable facts, but that doesn't make them any less relevant.