Internment Camps

[Canadian Army]

Recently I have been read about the McCarran Internal Security Act/Subversive Activities Control Act that was pasted in 1950.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarran_Internal_Security_Act

The Act was a United States federal law that required the registration of Communist organizations with the United States Attorney General and established the Subversive Activities Control Board to investigate persons suspected of engaging in subversive activities or otherwise promoting the establishment of a "totalitarian dictatorship," fascist or communist. The Law also prevented the members of these groups from become citizens, and in some cases, were prevented from entering or leaving the country. The Act was a key institution in the era of the Cold War, tightening alien exclusion and deportation laws and allowing for the detention of dangerous, disloyal, or subversive persons in times of war or "internal security emergency". Congress repealed the registration requirements of the law in 1968 as a result of a number of decisions by the U.S. Supreme Court that declared certain aspects of the law unconstitutional, but some portions remain intact.

During World War II thousands of Japanese, Germans, and Italians were rounded up and interned as Enemies of the State, by the US, Canadians, and the British. It makes sense that during World War III the US/NATO would reinstate the their internment laws and round up and intern; all people with questionable alliances, ie Communist Party members. There is also a good chance that member of other fantic organzations, such as the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), American Nazi Party, Black Panther Party would probable interned too.

[kato13]

Pre or post Thanksgiving day massacre

IMO It would be no to pre and yes to post.

[copeab]

After the nuclear strikes, I frankly don't think there would be enough command structure left for any organized, dedicated effort. Local military/civilian leaders might do something, but I don't see anything significant nationally.

[Matt Wiser]

I'd bet that folks like Ramsey Clark in the U.S. or George "Saddam was my friend" Galloway in the U.K. would find themselves behind bars once the U.S. and British enter the war. I've read that Galloway has been quoted as saying that he cried when the Red Flag with the Hammer and Sickle was lowered for the last time in 1991, so you can bet that he'd be arrested by the Brits. Clark, a former Attorney General (under LBJ) has been running around with a bunch of neo-Stalinists called the Workers' World Party, who run his "International Action Center" (more like a WWP front). Once the U.S. is fully involved, the FBI would show up to hustle him and his buddies off to the slammer.

[Raellus]

I can see known communists being interned. It wouldn't require that much manpower to run a couple of internment camps for suspected enemies of democracy (and capitalism).

I don't think other members of unafiliated groups like the Klan or the Black Panthers being interned- not unless they showed support for the Soviets and their allies, which is a possibility in the latter case (solidarity between the oppressed American underclass and the workers of the world). As far as I know, the Klan was left alone during WWII. Besides, they're pretty staunchly anti-communist, aren't they

[jester]

I can see known communists being interned. It wouldn't require that much manpower to run a couple of internment camps for suspected enemies of democracy (and capitalism).

I don't think other members of unafiliated groups like the Klan or the Black Panthers being interned- not unless they showed support for the Soviets and their allies, which is a possibility in the latter case (solidarity between the oppressed American underclass and the workers of the world). As far as I know, the Klan was left alone during WWII. Besides, they're pretty staunchly anti-communist, aren't they

They are pretty staunchly against everything! And they did and probably still do run alot of small remote communities.

As for those who would be pro communist, I really wonder if they would survive the days after an attack. They would probably be an immediate target by the populace in their communities, unless the community was of their ilk. Otherwise they would be something to strike at localy by the people who would have rage. And in part they would be part of the problem, since it was the folks these procommies and such would have supported who nuked us. Thus, they may end up getting shot, lynched, beaten to a pulp or within an inch of their lives, or maybe an old fashioned treatment, taring and feathering.

Think, in the T2K world would someone who had once been an advocate of the Russians and maybe still had those sympathies or preached them or associated with such sympathies, how welcome would they be in any community I could see them being at the very least forced out, either told to go, or a molotov cocktail tossed through their window as an encoruagement to get out.

A few probably would find themselves in a jail here and there, but as with a concentration camp or a small and local jail, you have to feed, house and care for them. And could a communitee aford that

And could the government afford to maintain a concentration camp, which would include, space, food, facilities, guards, transportation of them to a few central areas. Unless they have them on work parties or chain gangs, I wonder what the point of having a concentration camp or jail would be Its a matter of resources and they won't have them, so they either get put to work, or executed or warned and let go. I can see people being sentanced to days hard labor as a fine, much like they are required to do community service today. But, on real work details, like a lumber or brick or ruble clearing or road repair detail. Or, we can bring back putting prisoners to working in mines which wouldn't be a bad idea.

[headquarters]

politics -ethnicity

Political organizations that are in opposition would more likely than not be subjected to mass arrest etc in a time like the end of days described in T2K canon .The number of actual communists in the US in the 1990s would be just high enough to ensure that a couple of hundred feds would have a safe job for a few years still..But in such a frenzied atmosphere hysteria and ruthless opportunism would mean that all sorts of political organizations would be scrutinized and many would be classified disloyal that really have nothing to do with Moscow .McCarthism all over again -but this time the McCArthies would have powerful arguments like actual ruins and bodycounts to make their lunacy stretch out and last longer .

All the people have origins in the enemy nations-that would be the heavy stuff .There are millions of immigrants 1,2,3 generation that hail from one or the other of the countries on the other side .Sure they would protest loyalty,but having a Russian,Polish,Ukranian etc last name surely would be something of a disadvantage in times like those .

The confrontation between Latin America and the US as described in the books would also be a troublesome and disturbing chapter in the civilian populations chapter of the war .

As for the camps - I for one do not believe that such programs or indeed any programs would be started.The radiation ,hunger,cold and disease would be the only enemies left to fight-bar the occasional marauder/desperate refugee out to take what you have.

[Mohoender]

I also doubt that the state would start a camp program. However, in T2K, New America has many of them but their are turned against U.S. citizens. I like that idea better. What happens with the Robotniki in Silesia (Poland) is also similar

[Targan]

There were many cases in WWII of Japanese-Americans faithfully serving in the US Army while their parents and other family members were held in internment camps. Nasty situation. Very, very sad.

[Mohoender]

There were many cases in WWII of Japanese-Americans faithfully serving in the US Army while their parents and other family members were held in internment camps. Nasty situation. Very, very sad.

Very true. As I know U.S. Japanese were fighting in Italy and they fought more than bravely.

[jester]

Yes the 100th and 442nd Combat Teams fought in Italy, France and Germany with some smaller groups fighting in the Pacific. And the 442nd had more awards and decorations than any other in US history as well as almost a 200% casualty rate.

And the Supreme Court Violated the Constitution when it came to the internment. Frenzy, hysteria and oportunism.

However, the internment was temporary. After about 1943 the internees were given the option to relocated to the Midwest and East Coast, however a bitter pill was they also had to sign a loyalty oath which many saw and I agree, insulting. There is alot of misinformation on both sides about that issue. And we did intern Germans and Italians as well.

One thing to remember, in the 1920s they had a influx of immigrants from Asia, which had gone back to the late 19th century. So, we the US passed what was called "Yellow Laws" which were geared to prevent immigration and assimilation into society by denying immigrants the ability to gain citizenship. Thus, they could easily be deemed "enemy aliens" which gave a grounds for internment, just as we did with Gemran and Italian aliens, since they were citizens of hostile powers.

[Mohoender]

I didn't know about German and Italians. I didn't know also about the small groups in the Pacific. Thanks.

[jester]

I didn't know about German and Italians. I didn't know also about the small groups in the Pacific. Thanks.

Well its pretty standard to round up all persons who are from the country you are at war with.

As for Americans of Japanese desent in the Pacific, yes we had a few working in Intel, and as what would be called Phsy Ops today. They used them on Guam, Saipan, Tinian and Guam if I recall correctly.

As for the Germans and Italians. Well we did have a few German Sabatuers who were caught and imprisoned or executed, as well as some others who did get interned.

Remember the German American Bund had a considerable following. I recall they even had a rally at Madison Square Gardens to a near sell out crowd. And a good number of them did return to Germany to fight for them when they started doing the 1940 European tour.

[revaddict]

An excellent book to read in this regard is In Defense of Internment by Michelle Malkin.

She shows that based on what was known at the time there were real security threats from Japanese American citizen groups within the US. It was not just racial paranoia; people really were out to sabotage us.

Furthermore she shows that, contrary to the popular image, internment was not a simple matter of rounding up Japanese Americans at gunpoint and herding them into concentration camps as the Nazis did with their victims. The comparison between American internment camps and Nazi concentration camps is often made, but there is no similarity upon closer examination.

[kato13]

There was actionable intelligence against Japanese Agents living on the west coast. Unfortunately most of that intelligence came from the the decrypted Japanese diplomatic traffic. Picking up the individual agents would have led to suspicion about the security of the diplomatic code.

As with many cases in WWII, code breaking led to a difficult choice. In this case someone thought that Internment seemed like an elegant solution to the problem. Was it fair Certainly not. Was it necessary In hindsight probably not. But like so many decisions made during a war, I am glad it was not mine to make.