Body Armor in T2K

[Legbreaker]

Gee, any excuse to promote Gunmaster.......

[WallShadow]

Every so often, I get a weird glimmering of an idea for a new body armor rating in T2K -- basically, your vest or helmet might have a rating of "0.7" or something like that, which would mean that the incoming damage is multiplied by 0.7 to determine how much damage goes on to your fragile body. In the case of the "0.7 armor" here, one would receive 2 points of blunt trauma damage -- the 0.3 stopped, x10, /2, rounded up. I just haven't really sat down and tried to firm up the concept.

Paul, I think you're channeling 2300AD there. The decimal values of armor plus the non-penetration force defaulting to blunt trauma.

[pmulcahy11b]

Paul, I think you're channeling 2300AD there. The decimal values of armor plus the non-penetration force defaulting to blunt trauma.

Hmmm...I have 2300AD, but I've never actually read the rules system, just looked at the future "history." I'll have to take a closer look.

[James Langham]

How about this is a rule mechanic:

Armour has a wear value like vehicles. Until it reaches value 10 when it is destroyed it works perfectly. Wear value is increased by 1 in the following circumstances:

* each month on a 1D10 roll of 1 which must then be confirmed by rolling the wear value or less (tears get bigger, etc)

* each penetrating hit by a small arms

* each non-penetrating hit by small arms if the damage dice stopped are equal to or more than a roll of 1D6.

* the number of dice of a penetrating or non-penatrating large calibre weapon

Helmets which are notoriously damagable by small arms fire take double the wear value for all except the first case.

Rigid plate inserts where fitted are also subject to this rule but are also subject to shattering on each impact that penetrates. this occurs on a 1D10 roll equal to or less than the new wear value.

I suggest a doubling or trippling of the base cost of armour so that it is reasonably priced when worn.

Thoughts

Usefully this has also got me thinking about rifle wear values linked to rules I am writing for weapon reliability.

[Targan]

Is it possible to replace damaged/degraded kevlar panels in the field For instance by removing and storing undamaged panels from damaged body armour. I assume kevlar body armour consists of a number of specifically sized and shaped internal panels sewn, glued or other wise fixed in place within a durable nylon exterior cover And if it is possible to field-refurbish 'Frankenstein' body armour, is it possible to cut larger panels down to a required size and shape where necessary, without impairing the panels' impact resistance

On a similar vein, what grades and thicknesses of steel could be cut and shaped to create at least marginally effective replacement hard plates

[natehale1971]

I think I had read somewhere that you can meltdown and recast kevlar.. or is that cermaic plates

[Legbreaker]

Kevlar doesn't melt, it "decomposes" just shy of 500 degrees C.

http://www2.dupont.com/Kevlar/en_US/assets/downloads/KEVLAR_Technical_Guide.pdf

It doesn't burn either unless you hold a blow torch to it.
The outer shell of a vest however is another story depending on what it's made of.
Silicon Carbide, which is the ceramic used in vests likewise will not melt. Another use for it is disk brakes in high performance vehicles where melting at any temperature would be squarely in the "bad things" category.

[natehale1971]

I wonder if it was teflon then that I read about.. it's been nearly twenty years ago since i read about it. and all i know was that they said that they could recast the material to make thick plates that could stop bullets and knives.

[Legbreaker]

Teflon will melt however it's got abysmal bullet stopping properties. It is used though as a coating on some bullets to minimise barrel wear.

Steel and other metals could be used however the weight of an adequately thick sheet of metal would be a little on the prohibitive side. Only need look at what happened to armour a few hundred years ago when personal gunpowder weapons became widespread. Breastplates hung about for a while, but once reliable firearms which could quickly be reloaded came about, armour almost totally disappeared.

Better I think to try and avoid being hit in the first place by using cover and concealment and shooting them before they can do it to you. Having a vest and helmet is a huge bonus, but they certainly shouldn't be relied upon in place of common sense and cover.

[Targan]

What are the spall liners in armoured vehicles made from Can they be cut down and used as replacement panels in damaged body armour

[Panther Al]

Usually Kevlar from what I have seen though I wouldn't be surprised if there was some other materials used as well.

[dragoon500ly]

spall liners are pretty much all kevlar, even the Navy is using the stuff to frag-proof key compartments.

[B.T.]

PASGT, MOLLE, A.L.I.C.E. and Interceptor Body Armor

It is a little confusing, if one tries to get the evolution in body armor and equipment from the 1990ies up to now.

If I understood it right, the PASGT-system should have been the most common body armor of US troops in the Twilight War. The Interceptor body armor had been under evaluation and the first items were fielded in 1997 IRL (Hm, at least that's what Wikipedia says.).

So: Would the Interceptor body armor have been issued to US troops on a wider scale or even earlier than IRL, if the Twilight War had gone off the way, the game says What about the SAPIs and/or ESAPIs When were those exactly issued

I don't want to make this whole thing to complicated, but should an Interceptor body armor (eventually with the SAPI) give a better armor rating

And, last one at the moment: When were the MOLLE pouches fielded Would it be a common sight on the Polish battlefield in 2000, would it be rare, or would there be no chance to find these equipment items in the ETO

[bobcat]

PALS/MOLLE was first fielded in the mid ninety's in special forces units. by 2003 even the reserves and national guard had it(along side the old alice gear) that said i've been issued everything from M1956 webbing to MOLLE as late as 2005

[pmulcahy11b]

PALS/MOLLE was first fielded in the mid ninety's in special forces units. by 2003 even the reserves and national guard had it(along side the old alice gear) that said i've been issued everything from M1956 webbing to MOLLE as late as 2005

The first place I actually saw MOLLE in use was at Ft Bragg in 1990. A unit from 10th Mountain came down for some joint training (Bragg has some great training areas, especially MOUT sites, hiding in the backwoods); one of the squad leaders of the platoon our platoon was paired with was led by a roommate of mine from Korea, Stephen Blodgett. He told me the MOLLE gear they were working with was part of a field test and only his battalion had it, but there seemed to be universal approval of it from the troops. It wasn't until well after Desert Storm that we at the 82nd saw any MOLLE -- it is a good setup, and very customizable (within the limits imposed upon you by your chain of command).

Just as a BTW, when I first got to Bragg, one of the first places I went after getting to my unit was ALC (Airborne Leader's Course). One day, the entire class had the opportunity to ask the ADC(M) one question each. I asked him why the 82nd didn't have SINGCARS --I had just come from Korea (after going through jump school and AIT to change from 11C to 11B), and the ADC(M) told us that the timetable for SINCGARS did not include issue to the 82nd at that time. That shocked me; I was under the illusion at the time that the 82nd was the first "conventional" unit to get anything. He quickly disabused me of that notion, then further told me, after telling him that 8th Army in Korea was nearly complete in its SINGCARS conversion when I left (Jan 90), and it was even seeing limited issue to ROK SF, Rangers, and Marines, that this was a shock for him!