APC/IFV Passenger Capacities

[Panther Al]

In short: How realistic are those numbers

I've seen the seating drawings used to base the official numbers on, and they are always of soldiers with no kit on, and often enough the seats are pointing in all sorts of directions to fit as many in as possible. I am somewhat familiar with CFV version of the Bradley, and its not too far from reality, though the seating layout for the IFV version I always felt was more akin to wishful thinking than to what wold actually work in combat with troops in full battle rattle.

In your opinions and experiences, whats the real passenger allowances for the various APC/IFV's out there Particularly when it comes to the Marder, Warrior, CV90, the LAV, and such like

[weswood]

If you're talking about what is stated in the published rulebooks, I'd double check them. I think it was the BTR 80 that the rulebook stated had a passenger capability of 18, it's closer to 8 in real life.

[Panther Al]

No, More real world than game. Just like how parachutes was designed for (If I recall correctly) 180 pound loads, they never see anything so light in real world use. Same goes for seating, Sure, you can fit 11 guys in the back of a 113, provided they are not wearing anything other than BDU's. But in the real world, its more like 8 when wearing battle rattle.

[weswood]

It may be that the average size of man is increasing as the years go by. I recently watched a show describing Teddy Roosevelt was described as a big man at 5'9" and 200#. I'm 5'7 and considered average. I weigh in at #200, but that's 40 lbs more than when I was in the Corps.

I seem to remember reading that average weight of a soilder during WWII was about 150 lbs.

Then again, it may be I'm talking out my butt and don't know a thing

[pmulcahy11b]

For the Bradley A0 and A1, we were told 3+7 dismounts. Uh-huh. That's getting pretty cramped, and that's if you put almost every bit of equipment strapped to the sides -- including most of the extra ammo for the small arms and even most of the Dragon reloads (that's what we had at the time). If you have the bad luck to be in the "suicide seat" behind the driver, you are there because you small enough with your gear on to be forced into a tiny hole between the driver and the turret basket (yep, it was usually me), and when we dismounted, the job of the guy in front of me was to literally rip me out in case of a quick dismount, because I couldn't get out fast myself. And then I had to grab a Dragon on the way out!

It's better to stow some gear in that spot.

[pmulcahy11b]

It may be that the average size of man is increasing as the years go by. I recently watched a show describing Teddy Roosevelt was described as a big man at 5'9" and 200#. I'm 5'7 and considered average. I weigh in at #200, but that's 40 lbs more than when I was in the Corps.

How can you be 5'7" and average when I'm 5'8" and have always been considered short I'm down to 165, but that still 20 pounds more than I weighed in the Army and I'm sure there's a much greater fat-to-muscle ratio...

[weswood]

How can you be 5'7" and average when I'm 5'8" and have always been considered short I'm down to 165, but that still 20 pounds more than I weighed in the Army and I'm sure there's a much greater fat-to-muscle ratio...

Well, I've always considered myself average height. What I originally posted was exactly that: I'm considered short. I don't know why I changed it.

[Panther Al]

For the Bradley A0 and A1, we were told 3+7 dismounts. Uh-huh. That's getting pretty cramped, and that's if you put almost every bit of equipment strapped to the sides -- including most of the extra ammo for the small arms and even most of the Dragon reloads (that's what we had at the time). If you have the bad luck to be in the "suicide seat" behind the driver, you are there because you small enough with your gear on to be forced into a tiny hole between the driver and the turret basket (yep, it was usually me), and when we dismounted, the job of the guy in front of me was to literally rip me out in case of a quick dismount, because I couldn't get out fast myself. And then I had to grab a Dragon on the way out!

It's better to stow some gear in that spot.

Yeah, the bradley's suicide seat is a perfect example of what I am looking for. Sure: Its a place for one trooper, but in the real world, shouldn't be used for anything but stowage. Wasn't named that as well as the hell hole for nothing. As far as stowage being an issue, just look at the pics I posted in the Artwork Thread. And thats with the M3: Seats +3, we had no more than 2, and still had to strap a crapload of stuff on the outside.

[pmulcahy11b]

Well, I've always considered myself average height. What I originally posted was exactly that: I'm considered short. I don't know why I changed it.

The ghosts in the machine...

[ArmySGT.]

Your gonna need crisco and a shoe horn to get the personnel the manual says you can carry, plus the MTOE it has now inside, not as visualized in 1975.

Only now are they starting to design equipment with soldiers in battle rattle. Like seats and hatches.

Been waiting for the trailer with remote release.

Why could they do that in the 1940s but can't in 2011

[Panther Al]

Yeah, I always though it was rather short sighted to design things so they was best used by troops in garrison mode, no kit, no weapons, no body armour, no belongings, etc...

Its something I always had to shake my head at when it came to getting ready to roll north, we had so much strapped to the outsides of our vehicles you could hardly make out what sort of track it was under it all.

[Targan]

How can you be 5'7" and average when I'm 5'8" and have always been considered short I'm down to 165, but that still 20 pounds more than I weighed in the Army and I'm sure there's a much greater fat-to-muscle ratio...

In my homeland of New Zealand I'm dead average height at 5'10". Here in Australia most of my male friends are 6' plus. I'm pretty sure average heights here in Australia are getting bigger. I regularly see high school kids on the bus that tower over me. Heck, my ex (my daughter's mother) is 6'1".

[Legbreaker]

No, More real world than game. Just like how parachutes was designed for (If I recall correctly) 180 pound loads, they never see anything so light in real world use. Same goes for seating, Sure, you can fit 11 guys in the back of a 113, provided they are not wearing anything other than BDU's. But in the real world, its more like 8 when wearing battle rattle.

Actually, the M113 can fit up to 14 in the back (in addition to the crew), including webbing, packs, radios, the lot.
Been there and done it, and conducted the tactical enbus and debussing drills as well. EVERY bit of kit was squeezed inside the vehicle with only the usual cam net and single roll of barbed wire on the outside.
AND it was the Australian version of the M113 - the one with a turret basket taking up internal space.
Not saying it was easy, or comfortable, but if can be done if everyone is REALLY close friends.

[ArmySGT.]

Now this is an APC!

M2HB
M240
60 MM Mortar.

Mmmm Goodness

Smoke dischargers

and the new active defense set ups that shoot down ATGMs.

[Legbreaker]

I look at that and think, "wow, what a big target!"
Hope it's got good armour because it sure can't hide!