Question on the HK 416

[Schone23666]

I know this weapon (H&K 416) generated some press when it came out several years ago, quite a bit was made about the short-stroke piston system as opposed to the traditional gas-impingement system the M4's and M16's traditionally used. Now, I've been told that supposedly it's a more reliable system that doesn't require as much painstaking cleaning as the M4/M16 family (or so I'm told or have read) but I read a post from HorseSoldier about supposed issues with the accuracy of the weapon being a bit subpar, somewhere around 5 to 6 MOA on average Is this true If so, what is the reason, would it have anything to do with the way the piston rod was designed alongside the barrel system on the weapon And has there been any effort to improve or fix the issue by HK Should any game stats for this weapon reflect it if it is indeed an issue

Don't know what the word is on this particular matter, but any input would help. Just keep it FRIENDLY please.

[ArmySGT.]

Direct impingement and pistons both use pressure from the fired cartridges expanding gases to affect the bolt carrier group.

The M4 Shits where it eats and the 416 shit in the door. Either way your going to be cleaning and scraping carbon residue.

Since I have never cleaned a 416 I can't tell you how much trouble it is to clean the carbon form up front and how quickly it may block the gas ports.

The piston helps in one regard. The bolt carrier group is not subjected to hot gases being dumped through it so it is cooler and lowers the chance of cook offs. If one can't help themselves trying to use and M4 or M4A1 as a light MG.

[LAW0306]

I have cleaned both. you want a 416 if you want a weapon you dont have to clean...also the bolt stays warm to the touch not hot when in operation making the rounds not want to cook in chamber. the weapon gets 2 moa to standard. that was the threashold for the contract most are 1 moa guns. our M27 with a heavy barrel are free float is sub moa.

[Legbreaker]

Any chance we can get one of our gunsmiths to chime in on this. It's all well and good to hear what the user has to say about it, but often the user is really only able to relate the technical details they were taught rather than give a good, solid opinon of the mechanism based on actually working on them and dealing with the problems.

Personally I've used both the M16 and L1A1 SLR which is a gas piston type weapon. Based purely on being able to adequately clean the gas system, the L1A1 is head and shoulders above the M16. Never had any heat issues with either weapon, but then I haven't had to fire either on a sustained high rate of fire for any length of time.

[headquarters]

HK 416

I have cleaned both. you want a 416 if you want a weapon you dont have to clean...also the bolt stays warm to the touch not hot when in operation making the rounds not want to cook in chamber. the weapon gets 2 moa to standard. that was the threashold for the contract most are 1 moa guns. our M27 with a heavy barrel are free float is sub moa.

Our unit is currently issued these as our standard service weapon.

I agree with Law. Doesnt muck up to much , easy to operate and good accuracy.

I will grade it at an A ( in my book)

all in my humble opinion of course.

[LAW0306]

I just do not use... I procure for my service and test. I work with units at The force level to find out what they need and why. Then we test. MY last 3 years I was a user at the Regimental level. Now I work for Operations and training for the base (IE RANGE CONTROL) and we test things or help people test there stuff. I agree with Leg on the L1A1.. Great weapon designed for combat from the get go. was my Favorate at foreign weapons instructor course. FN-FAL and G3 were also very fine weapons. The 416 is just the next level. from what the UK Cav guy said he hit the mark with a torch and a laser on each gun....

[95th Rifleman]

The sweet sixteen supplement for Twilight 2013 has some good info for the M16 series.

[Cpl. Kalkwarf]

I have been checking out the LWRC M6a3 and M6a4. Those are some sweet rifles. The Gas system they uses ideas from the AK to make it avoid the carrier tilt issue better. Part of the gas op rod is permanently attached like it is in the AK so the initial shock of the impact is just at the front of the piston and not transferred onto the gas key in a violent way as it is in most gas systems for the AR.

Thinking of getting one of the M6a3s. in the DMR configuration with the 18" barrel.

[ArmySGT.]

Any chance we can get one of our gunsmiths to chime in on this. It's all well and good to hear what the user has to say about it, but often the user is really only able to relate the technical details they were taught rather than give a good, solid opinon of the mechanism based on actually working on them and dealing with the problems.

Actually I am a Gunsmith. Graduated from Trinidad State. I just don't work as one.

Do you know what the difference is between a cheese pizza and a Gunsmith

A cheese pizza can feed a family of four.

I have never worked on a piston driven AR. But the carbon has to go someplace. That is on the head of the piston and the gas block were gases are tapped from the barrel.

In this case I think you may see the problems a Garand or M-14 would have.

Good ammo and cleaning your not going to have any trouble.

Some copper solvent as you may find copper obstructing the gas ports (takes thousands or rounds) but, you need a bore scope to see it to to remove the gas block.

Copper on the piston head creating greater OD and drag.

One advantage is the weight of the piston rod operating in conjunction with the force of the propellant gasses versus just the propellant gases working on the BCG.

Two ends to the same means, you still have to clean them.

Actually I have seen more M4s and M16s when I was in from the methods meant to clean them.

Cleaning from the muzzle with the steel cleaning rods being one of the worst methods. Second being polishing off all the parkerizing off the internals.

[Brother in Arms]

I do work as a gunsmith and I am a graduate of the Colorado School of Trades. It pays my bills pretty well,perhaps my standard of living is lower than some. But then again I don't know how much one gets paid to suck the governments cock.

I have only worked on one 416 and it didn't seem to have any major problem with carbon buildup. But civillians rarely shoot there firearms as much as soldiers do can't say for sure if it would be an issue.

What I do know is that the most reliable firearms decade after decade are those that have pistons.

BIA

[Schone23666]

Thanks for the all comments guys, much appreciated. However, I was still wondering about the accuracy of the HK 416. How does it compare to the M4A1 and M16A4 Is the accuracy effected in any way by the design and placement of the piston rod system on the HK 416

[ArmySGT.]

The Standard for most any Military is 4 MOA for a stock Standard issue Rifle.

[Legbreaker]

That's unacceptably inaccurate in my book. 2 MOA should be the absolute limit - at least then you have a chance of hitting a target at 250-300 metres reliably.

[ArmySGT.]

That's unacceptably inaccurate in my book. 2 MOA should be the absolute limit - at least then you have a chance of hitting a target at 250-300 metres reliably.

It is the Machinegun and Artillery that is supposed to cause the casualties, the Infantryman with a rifle is supposed to protect them.

4 MOA is good enough for suppressive fires.

[Targan]

It is the Machinegun and Artillery that is supposed to cause the casualties, the Infantryman with a rifle is supposed to protect them.

4 MOA is good enough for suppressive fires.

It's a clear cultural difference between the US Army and Commonwealth militaries. The Australian Army places great emphasis on the individual marksmanship of its soldiers. We're probably more like the USMC in that regard.