February 1997 Fighting in Southern Germany

[Webstral]

Having just acquired the NATO Vehicle Guide, I want to go back to a couple of interpretations of the v1 chronology I have laid out in the past. Rather than re-write old material, Ill reference items I retrieved from days gone by.

In early February, Pact forces in western Czechoslovakia attacked NATO forces in southern Germany. The attackers were Soviet and Czechoslovak. The defenders were mostly Dutch. SOUTHAG, under Dutch command since mid-December, gave ground in a bitterly-fought contest that took the Soviets by surprise. The Soviet leadership had intended to inflict such losses on the Dutch Army that the Netherlands would follow France and Belgium out of the war. Instead, the resolve and skill of the Dutch troops as they waged their fighting withdrawal sapped the Pact offensive of its strength. The arrival of German and American reinforcements enabled SOUTHAG to switch to the counteroffensive; within fourteen days, Pact forces had been pushed back to their start lines.

Hacketts idea seems well-suited to explaining the events of the v1 chronology. Ill outline the events I believe are important:

Dec 1997: Anglo-American (and Canadian) forces cross the border.
Feb 1997: Soviet and Czechoslovak forces launch an offensive into southern Germany but lack the strength to make any significant gains.
Apr 1997: NATO launches its offensive across Poland
Jul 1997: German forces cross into the USSR
Jul 1997: The USSR initiates tactical nuclear war

There is a lengthy hiatus between the Anglo-American entrance into the war in Germany and the start of offensive operations into Poland. There are several possible explanations for the long pause. My preferred explanation is that the fresh Anglo-American forces hit the exhausted Pact forces in Germany like a pile driver. Comparisons between the NATO attack across the North German Plain in the DDR and Operation Desert Storm are not entirely out of place, although neither the pace of the advance nor the very low casualty rate are replicated. Still, the fresh and intact heavy divisions of III, V, and VII US Corps, and I and II British Corps, supported by the full weight of the USAF in Europe, proves overwhelming against the Pact defenders. After some brutal fighting, NATO forces close up on the borders of the DDR and stop.

At this point, the Western Allies want to call a halt to the fighting. Theyve gotten what they wanted, and its cost them a pretty hefty bag of casualties. The Germans had been severely handled. The Anglo-Americans have gotten their noses bloodied, too. German reunification is a fact. To the Western way of thinking, the Soviets ought to respond to a peace initiative. The Soviets have gotten the worst of the fighting in Germany. The Soviets are still bogged down in China. Surely they will make peace if NATO guarantees that there wont be further action against the Pact.

Unfortunately for the West, there has been a regime change. This was inevitable, really. The German invasion of the DDR in October [surely would have] prompted calls for full-scale war with the West before NATO could marshal its full strength. I have personified this idea with Premier Dmitri Danilov and Defense Minister Sergei Sauronski. Danilov wants to keep the war with Germany limited to war with Germany because he doesnt believe the Soviet Union can win a conventional war against NATO or even afford to wage one. Sauronski believes the war has already started; therefore, the Soviets should use their advantage of in-place forces and shorter lines of communication to achieve the greatest possible advantage before the European allies can mobilize and before US forces can be brought to Europe. Danilov wins the argument. When the English speaking members of NATO join the fight, Danilov pays with his life.

Sauronski isnt about to make peace with Germany still united. The USSR still has an advantage in the median term because true mobilization of Western manpower and resources will take a year or more. The Soviet Union can go to full mobilization, launch a counteroffensive in Europe, and then call for a peace that will reestablish the status quo ante bellum in Europe at the bare minimum. Once that is done, the USSR can finish business with China once and for all.

The Pact offensive in February is intended to peel away members of NATO. France, Belgium, Italy, and Greece already have quit. Although the Soviets dont have the strength they need to go over to the offensive in Europe by February, they want to influence the nascent peace talks in Geneva. Although the Netherlands and Denmark have refused to help reunify Germany, they have remained part of the NATO alliance. Dutch and Danish forces have assumed control over the southern part of Germany where US forces have been based. Sauronski orders the February invasion of southern Germany to inflict such casualties on the Dutch that the Netherlands will drop out of the alliance or make a separate peace. Unfortunately, he overestimates the offensive capabilities of the Pact forces in western Czechoslovakia while underestimating the fighting abilities and resolve of the Dutch. The crisis passes as Canadian, Danish, and German forces, liberally supported by NATO air power, arrive in southern Germany.

Having reached their stop line along the Oder in December, 1996, NATO debates what to do next. According to canon, the war in North Korea is on by this time. I believe the war in Iran has begun as well. If one accepts my proposition that a Soviet re-armed and re-equipped Iraq invades Kuwait for a second time, then the West is faced with this issue, too. The West has a lot to do. The situation in Germany is less favorable than it looks, since the US has supplied the FRG with large quantities of fuel, ammunition, and what parts the armies had in common. This materiel was consumerd in the fighting, along with a host of high-tech items that helped win the victory but which are now in short supply. The Bundeswehr is reeling, the Luftwaffe is shattered, and Anglo-American-Canadian forces have not had the cheap victory the Coalition enjoyed in Operation Desert Storm. France, Belgium, Italy, and Greece all have dropped out of NATO. East Germany is a shambles, and West Germany has suffered considerable damage from enemy air and missile action. As SACEUR is certain to tell POTUS, these are not promising conditions for further action in Northern Europe, save rolling back the Soviets in Norway.

I think this is why we see a break in the action between December and February. The US is hoping the Soviets will call it quits. The Soviets greatly diminish their operational tempo in Northern Europe, though for different reasons. The Soviets know they have lost East Germany for now, but the Kremlin is determined not to throw in the towel. Having overthrown Danilov for failing to secure victory, Sauronski finds himself on the horns of the same dilemma. His solution is a new sitzkrieg that he intends to use to fortify Poland and build up for an offensive into southern Germany.

The February offensive by Soviet and Czechoslovak forces in southern Germany is politically motivated. Anglo-American forces remain in the DDR, along with the most combat ready of the German divisions. Security in southern Germany has been passed to the Dutch, who are still on the fence about the business of reuniting Germany but who have not dropped out of NATO. The fully mobilized Dutch Army has been reinforced by elements of the Bundeswehr and the Danish Army, but the show in the south is really a Dutch one. The Kremlin intends to inflict massive losses on Dutch forces in southern Germany, which will hopefully lead to the Netherlands also dropping out of NATO. The offensive does not go off as planned. SOUTHAG, under a Dutch general and hastily reinforced by other NATO forces, pushes the Pact back into Czechoslovakia in a two-week campaign.

The NATO Vehicle Guide seems to support this interpretation of events. A few modifications to unit histories are necessary to make the pattern fit as well as Id like.

According to the section on the Netherlands, 1st and 4th Mechanized Divisions entered Germany on 7 JAN 97. The recon elements of I Ne Corps are listed as having fought in southern Germany in 1997. 5th Mechanized Division is listed as having crossed into Germany oeas the fighting in southern Germany grew in intensity to go into a reserve position around Koln. The three reserve infantry brigades listed are supposed to have remained in the Netherlands throughout 1997 on internal security missions.

According to the section on the Royal Danish Army, Denmark declared war on the USSR oeafter Soviet air strikes hit several Danish ports in February 1997. The Jutland Mechanized Division is supposed to have come under the command of I Ge Corps at this point. We know the division took part in the drive across Poland. The Slesvig Regimental Combat Team was mobilized on 10 OCT 96 and oeentered the field on 09 MAR 97. The SRCT oewas involved in the fighting in southern Germany in the spring of 1997.

We also know that the West German Territorial Army was involved in the war, although by July 2000 it appears to have been absorbed into the Regular Army structure. At least once, mention is made in the NATO Vehicle Guide of German Territorial Army units being absorbed as replacements for regular units. Also, we know from the v1 chronology that when Italy invaded southern Germany in 1997, Italian forces fought German Territorial Army units. In the 1980s, the Territorial Army fielded six brigades.

Putting all of this together with a few minor modifications can give us a broad picture of who on the NATO side was involved in the fighting in southern Germany in February 1997. The bulk of NATO combat power on the Central Front remains in the former DDR deployed along the borders of Poland and Czechoslovakia. I Ne Corps moves into southern Germany in January to replace some of the US forces in the former DDR. German Territorial Army brigades and a few American units remain in the former American sector.

Pact forces build in western Czechoslovakia. The Pact practices good deception warfare by playing on NATO expectations that any offensive action will be aimed at East Germany. NATO intelligence believes that any attacks into the Bavarian Forest will focus on flanking the main NATO line running from Nurnberg through Dresden to the Oder River. Dutch forces and the German Territorial Army are placed along a line from Nurnberg to the Austrian border at the Danube.

Pact forces (Soviet and Czechoslovak) strike into Germany apparently aimed at Munich. For three days, NATO remains convinced that this attack is in support of a more general action. The Pact does its best to support this impression by stepping up actions across the Central Front. Among these actions are attacks on Denmark to drive the Danes out of the NATO alliance. The Dutch and German forces under I Ne Corps fall back towards Munich, opening a hole in Allied lines west of Nurnberg that NATO expects the Pact to try to exploit. The Dutch and Germans are ordered to stand fast until reserves can be brought up. The Pact has succeeded in keeping the real intent of the offensive"the destruction of I Ne Corps for political purposes"hidden from SACEUR. The Dutch send 5th Mechanized Division south to support I Ne Corps.

Within a few days, however, shrewd Western analysts put the pieces together. The lack of any significant action along the Czech-East German border makes them suspicious. A renewed air offensive against air bases, logistical bases, and lines of communication in northwest Czechoslovakia convince SACEUR that the forces in place lack the strength to break the existing NATO defensive line in southeastern East Germany. Air support for the Dutch and Germans increases.

Having declared war on the USSR, Denmark insists that the Royal Danish Army by used in support of the I Ne Corps in southern Germany. The Jutland Mechanized Division and Slesvig Regimental Combat Team are shipped south. In a political move meant to show faith in the Netherlands, SACEUR designates the extreme south of Germany as SOUTHAG under a Dutch general.

I dont know which Soviet and Czechoslovak forces are involved in the fighting. Off the top of my head, Im thinking that the numbers will be limited"six divisions, I think. A large force gathering in southwestern Czechoslovakia will draw unwanted attention to the area. The Pact wants to accomplish something specific, not the conquest of southern Germany. A Soviet army with 3-4 divisions and a Czechoslovak corps-sized formation seem about right to me.

Webstral

[Raellus]

So canon has Dutch and Danish units operating in S. Germany This is one of those times when I wonder what the writers were thinking. It makes a lot more sense, logistically at least, to have them operating closer to home, in N. Germany and instead shift German, American, or UK units south to counter any Pact advances there. But that's moot, I suppose. If a rational explanation justifying canon can be made, I say go with it.

That said, I think your explanation/rationale for the canonical location of the Dutch and Danes works pretty well.

[Panther Al]

It does make an odd kind of sense though: with those countries still in NATO, and willing to live up to the terms of the treaty without being willing to take part in a war that could be seen as started by a NATO member, having them take up defensive positions in the south while freeing up the units that was formerly there to move to the eastern front, makes a lot of sense. Even if its just the hope that the Sov/Czech armies might attack north and draw them into taking a more active role. Not very nice, nor something anyone would admit to, but realpolitik sometimes comes to the fore.

Which brings me to the point that I always felt the Southern Front never got the attention it deserved.
You have:
The Soviets.
The Czechs.
The Danes.
The Dutch.
The Germans.
The Austrians.
The Italians.
The Germans.
The Americans.
The Brits.
Hell, even the Swiss to a degree.
And yet, there is still more...

But you get the point. You got a three way war where each of the three sides are tossing sharp pointy things at each other with great abandon, you have a grab bag of about every nationality you can think of: Its not to hard to find an excuse for a French presence, or heck, what with the Alps in winter, you could make a halfhearted call for a few Norwegian Mountain Troops lending a hand. Makes for a great place to run a PC group in.

[Webstral]

I can't say I've done much work in the far south of Germany, but I've noticed a few things from reading the various vehicle guides and the v1 chronology. Fourth US Army appears to be based in Austria in July 2000. (Forgive me if I'm misquoting. My manuals are on the other side of a big pile of office junk at the moment.) We know NATO tries to force the passes into Italy in late 1998 (I think). Presumably, then, NATO pushed the Italians out of southern Germany and back across western Austria. The Soviets appear to have forces in eastern Austria. I'd put money down that the Austrian Army is working actively with NATO. I won't speculate as to whether there are Hungarians or Czechoslovaks among the Pact units in eastern Austria. It does seem like a promising place for enterprising players, though.

[James Langham]

Having just acquired the NATO Vehicle Guide, I want to go back to a couple of interpretations of the v1 chronology I have laid out in the past. Rather than re-write old material, Ill reference items I retrieved from days gone by.

[snip]

I dont know which Soviet and Czechoslovak forces are involved in the fighting. Off the top of my head, Im thinking that the numbers will be limited"six divisions, I think. A large force gathering in southwestern Czechoslovakia will draw unwanted attention to the area. The Pact wants to accomplish something specific, not the conquest of southern Germany. A Soviet army with 3-4 divisions and a Czechoslovak corps-sized formation seem about right to me.

Webstral

It all makes very good sense and excellent write up, however (without checking canon and being more familiar with 2.2) is a possible alternative explanation that the Danish and Dutch (being committed slightly later) in reserve and thrown south to stop the attack (compare the use of the 82nd/101st as a strategic reserve being used in the Battle of the Bulge).

[Olefin]

It does make an odd kind of sense though: with those countries still in NATO, and willing to live up to the terms of the treaty without being willing to take part in a war that could be seen as started by a NATO member, having them take up defensive positions in the south while freeing up the units that was formerly there to move to the eastern front, makes a lot of sense. Even if its just the hope that the Sov/Czech armies might attack north and draw them into taking a more active role. Not very nice, nor something anyone would admit to, but realpolitik sometimes comes to the fore.

Which brings me to the point that I always felt the Southern Front never got the attention it deserved.
You have:
The Soviets.
The Czechs.
The Danes.
The Dutch.
The Germans.
The Austrians.
The Italians.
The Germans.
The Americans.
The Brits.
Hell, even the Swiss to a degree.
And yet, there is still more...

But you get the point. You got a three way war where each of the three sides are tossing sharp pointy things at each other with great abandon, you have a grab bag of about every nationality you can think of: Its not to hard to find an excuse for a French presence, or heck, what with the Alps in winter, you could make a halfhearted call for a few Norwegian Mountain Troops lending a hand. Makes for a great place to run a PC group in.

Was reading this thread - very interesting

And you are right about the mix of forces - and you could add Hungarians as well plus possible Czech and Italian forces that refuse to fight against NATO. There are free Polish troops but no free Czech troops You could easily see troops from the western part of the country joining up with NATO.

Also the sheer number of vehicles and weapons that players could find and encounter is staggering - not only the regular ones but now you get Austrian and Italian equipment as well - not often you see a Centauro tank destroyer in game play for instance.

And players could easily take the southern route home - especially in games today. While the initial release of modules had the players go deeper into Poland (which to me made little sense, who is going to head east to get home unless you play a party of Soviet or Ukranian deserters) having the Black Madonna module shows a more realistic route - i.e. one thru Silesia and then into western Czechoslovakia and Austria into Germany. Opening up all kinds of new encounters and equipment possibilities.

[Raellus]

Was reading this thread - very interesting

And you are right about the mix of forces - and you could add Hungarians as well plus possible Czech and Italian forces that refuse to fight against NATO. There are free Polish troops but no free Czech troops You could easily see troops from the western part of the country joining up with NATO.

Also the sheer number of vehicles and weapons that players could find and encounter is staggering - not only the regular ones but now you get Austrian and Italian equipment as well - not often you see a Centauro tank destroyer in game play for instance.

And players could easily take the southern route home - especially in games today. While the initial release of modules had the players go deeper into Poland (which to me made little sense, who is going to head east to get home unless you play a party of Soviet or Ukranian deserters) having the Black Madonna module shows a more realistic route - i.e. one thru Silesia and then into western Czechoslovakia and Austria into Germany. Opening up all kinds of new encounters and equipment possibilities.

I wholeheartedly agree. Southern Germany/Austria/Czechoslovakia border region is a very fertile and largely unexplored (in terms of the official modules) campaign area. There is a little source material out there, though- Chico's amazing Czech vehicle guide for one. And don't forget a possible papal tie in, with the Polish-born pope and his Swiss guards trying to make their way north from Italy back to Poland. I'd really like to run a campaign there someday.

While the initial release of modules had the players go deeper into Poland (which to me made little sense, who is going to head east to get home unless you play a party of Soviet or Ukranian deserters)

Although I understand your point about a NATO party "escaping" east, deeper into Poland, it does make some sense. Heading west means moving towards the sharp end of the WTO spear, whereas moving east first would mean encountering lower troop densities of mostly support personnel instead. It's kind of like escaping a rip tide. If you try to swim directly back to shore, you'll tire, get pulled further out, and very likely drown. The best way to survive is to swim parallel to shore until you get out of the rip tide, and then head back to shore. The same principle could apply to an E&E situation. It's counter intuitive and not necessarily the better option for getting back to NATO lines, but there is some sound logic there.

[Olefin]

I wholeheartedly agree. Southern Germany/Austria/Czechoslovakia border region is a very fertile and largely unexplored (in terms of the official modules) campaign area. There is a little source material out there, though- Chico's amazing Czech vehicle guide for one. And don't forget a possible papal tie in, with the Polish-born pope and his Swiss guards trying to make their way north from Italy back to Poland. I'd really like to run a campaign there someday.

You are right there about the possibilities for sure - the Madonna module and the Going Home module offer some great ideas for adventure there at the least (compared to Yugoslavia that is almost berefit of anything in canon besides Albania and the units that are there) but you would really have to make a lot of it up yourself.

By the way that is one reason I wish they had set the Going Home module later - if you look at the timeline it offers very little time to actually move around if you hope to make the boat. Basically all you have is half of July, August, September and half of October - if you dont head home after then you wont make it. And that really doesnt give you much time for real adventuring in Europe unless you either ignore the module, change the date (and thus change any modules that depend on that date as well) of the going Home or just decide to stay in Europe.

Just the time wasted making fuel can pretty rapidly run you out of time to do much in that little amount of time (if all you have is a medium still for instance look at how long it takes to brew a full tank of fuel for a Bradley or LAV or M1 tank)

Actually playing a campaign right now - and just the idea of having the opportunity to explore that area is making me think that maybe we should not do the traditional Krakow -Warsaw route and instead do the Madonna and try our luck to the west.

[Adm.Lee]

You are right there about the possibilities for sure - the Madonna module and the Going Home module offer some great ideas for adventure there at the least (compared to Yugoslavia that is almost berefit of anything in canon besides Albania and the units that are there) but you would really have to make a lot of it up yourself.

...

Actually playing a campaign right now - and just the idea of having the opportunity to explore that area is making me think that maybe we should not do the traditional Krakow -Warsaw route and instead do the Madonna and try our luck to the west.

I'd suggest Krakow-Silesia, and then trying to score a boat to follow the rivers back to the front lines. Maybe even use a boat-- the GM can reskin a lot of "Pirates."

[Tegyrius]

And you are right about the mix of forces - and you could add Hungarians as well plus possible Czech and Italian forces that refuse to fight against NATO. There are free Polish troops but no free Czech troops You could easily see troops from the western part of the country joining up with NATO.

I suspect that the original material's lack of Czech forces fighting for NATO was based on the West's 1980s-era view of Czechoslovakia as a tightly-controlled Soviet puppet state. After 1968, the boots came down pretty heavily.

I lean toward your interpretation, though. I think you'd have enough "western Czechoslovakian" citizens in 1997 who either remembered Prague Spring personally or were raised on stories of it. They wouldn't identify as Czechoslovakian, though - probably Czech or Bohemian, with a tiny minority of ethnic Germans.

I wholeheartedly agree. Southern Germany/Austria/Czechoslovakia border region is a very fertile and largely unexplored (in terms of the official modules) campaign area. There is a little source material out there, though- Chico's amazing Czech vehicle guide for one.

For 2013's three loyal fans, I did a little something along those lines too.

- C.

[Rainbow Six]

And players could easily take the southern route home - especially in games today. While the initial release of modules had the players go deeper into Poland (which to me made little sense, who is going to head east to get home unless you play a party of Soviet or Ukranian deserters) having the Black Madonna module shows a more realistic route - i.e. one thru Silesia and then into western Czechoslovakia and Austria into Germany. Opening up all kinds of new encounters and equipment possibilities.

I could be wrong here (am going from memory and it has been a very long time since I read the material) but I think there may have been something written in the very early published material, either the original v1 box set or the Free City of Krakow that strongly hinted that the best route for Kalisz survivors to take was in the direction of Krakow and gave reasons why other, potentially more direct, routes were best avoided (e.g running into large bodies of enemy troops).

[Olefin]

Thats why I was thinking that they might go thru Czechoslovakia and Austria into southern Germany - i.e. going west but first going south to get out of the main thrust of the Russian counteroffensive into Germany and then try to get thru the backwater areas where the war has been static for a while.

[pmulcahy11b]

And players could easily take the southern route home - especially in games today. While the initial release of modules had the players go deeper into Poland (which to me made little sense, who is going to head east to get home unless you play a party of Soviet or Ukranian deserters) having the Black Madonna module shows a more realistic route - i.e. one thru Silesia and then into western Czechoslovakia and Austria into Germany. Opening up all kinds of new encounters and equipment possibilities.

I had players once decide to do this -- except they went through the Alps. So I decided to set a weird encounter and have them meet up with a band of Neanderthals that had been hidden there for 40,000 years. They ended up staying with the Neanderthals until it got warmer, and never told anyone about them.

[Raellus]

I had players once decide to do this -- except they went through the Alps. So I decided to set a weird encounter and have them meet up with a band of Neanderthals that had been hidden there for 40,000 years. They ended up staying with the Neanderthals until it got warmer, and never told anyone about them.

Awesome.

[Raellus]

Austrian Pope

I wasn't sure whether I should place this topic here or resurrect the location of the Pope poll/thread (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...pope#post49613).

If we take James Langham's Pope scenario and go with a fairly conservative, anti-communist Pope developing his own theocratic polity in Italy, I can see the Soviets supporting a more sympathetic Pope of their own, both in an attempt to counter the influence of the Italian Pope, but to build support among Catholics in WTO/disputed nations. To that end, they could either set up a rival Pope in Poland or perhaps in disputed and largely Catholic Austria. Austria, as a disputed territory, would be harder for neutrals or NATO to dismiss outright (as opposed to a Pope in a mostly communist-controlled country like Poland) and there might be multinational support for an Austrian pope among Austrian/German Catholics and the sizable pro-Soviet Italian military elements present there.

Even if it's not the Soviets behind an Austrian Pope, the place sounds so chaotic and overrun with foreign soldiers, setting up an Austrian Pope would be an interesting ploy by a warlord attempting to consolidate control over his chunk of the country.