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  • #1

    The AA-12 shotgun

    Okay, time for another weapon question. The AA-12 Auto shotgun....what's the status of this weapon Is anyone currently testing it, fielding it, etc

    It seems like a promising design that uses plentiful 12 gauge ammunition (nothing fancy like the CAW design) but as I think perhaps Paul might have pointed out correctly in an earlier post about auto shotguns, they're niche weapons for special applications.

    Also, call me skeptical, but I did feel some warning bells go off when the designers claimed it didn't require cleaning or lubrication (unless I heard wrong). I recall the same mistaken impressions apparently went about when the M-16 came on to the scene...
    "The use of force is always an answer to problems. Whether or not it's a satisfactory answer depends on a number of things, not least the personality of the person making the determination. Force isn't an attractive answer, though. I would not be true to myself or to the people I served with in 1970 if I did not make that realization clear."
    — David Drake
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  • #2
    Oooooo, 12 gauge buckshotty goodness!

    Although in my opinion a great weapon (in principle at least) I believe this is nothing more than a collectors item these days. Like all good things it wasn't picked up by anyone significant and has been pushed to the side of the road.
    The design has in recent years though been picked up by a new company and a number of changes made (188 I believe) and it's been offered to the USMC as of aboud 2005.
    If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

    Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

    Mors ante pudorem

    Comment

    • #3
      Sorry, I should have clarified, I was referring to the more recent incarnation of the system on sale by MPS systems (I believe that's the vendor's name, could be wrong). They claim they sent several to the U.S. Marine Corps for testing, don't know what the result of the testing was though or how they felt about the weapon. There's a youtube video of the weapon here:

      404 Not Found
      http://www.youtube.com/watchv=hhstuvzMiB0


      Though I wonder about another auto shotgun on the market, the USAS-12 made by Daewoo. I heard some MAY have been picked up by U.S. forces for use in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, though I don't know who, assuming it's true of course.
      "The use of force is always an answer to problems. Whether or not it's a satisfactory answer depends on a number of things, not least the personality of the person making the determination. Force isn't an attractive answer, though. I would not be true to myself or to the people I served with in 1970 if I did not make that realization clear."
      — David Drake

      Comment

      • #4
        Its always caught my eye, but yes: A special purpose weapon for very limited circumstances.

        But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians:

        http://www.youtube.com/watchv=WOoUVe...er_profilepage
        Member of the Bofors fan club! The M1911 of automatic cannon.

        Proud fan(atic) of the CV90 Series.

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Panther Al View Post
          Its always caught my eye, but yes: A special purpose weapon for very limited circumstances.

          But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians:

          http://www.youtube.com/watchv=WOoUVe...er_profilepage
          LMAO, love that guy!

          You should see this....Russians using the AS VAL rifle (a rather interesting weapon IMO) to shoot down icicles!

          404 Not Found
          http://www.youtube.com/watchv=eS2MEN-C31U
          "The use of force is always an answer to problems. Whether or not it's a satisfactory answer depends on a number of things, not least the personality of the person making the determination. Force isn't an attractive answer, though. I would not be true to myself or to the people I served with in 1970 if I did not make that realization clear."
          — David Drake

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Panther Al View Post
            But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians.
            A man with a VERY fun pastime! :P
            Gotta love it!
            If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

            Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

            Mors ante pudorem

            Comment

            • #7
              That guys collection is mindboggling. At first he was using other peoples weapons, but now days his personal armory is getting out of hand from what I have been hearing.


              After all, not just anyone has a fully operational battle sta.. err.. 40mm Bofors tucked away in the garage.
              Member of the Bofors fan club! The M1911 of automatic cannon.

              Proud fan(atic) of the CV90 Series.

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Panther Al View Post
                Its always caught my eye, but yes: A special purpose weapon for very limited circumstances.

                But then, you've always got those crazy (but fun) russians:

                http://www.youtube.com/watchv=WOoUVe...er_profilepage
                Oh yeah, stumbled across his videos several days ago.

                "I am a professional Russian."

                A generous and sadistic GM,
                Brandon Cope

                http://copeab.tripod.com

                Comment

                • #9
                  The AA-12 has one very big issue that I think is probably the main reason it hasn't been adopted in any significant numbers.

                  The magazine is heavy and it doesn't get a lot of support from the magazine well/magazine catch. That 'frame' looking thing that encloses the pistolgrip is actually the magazine support. You have to thread the mag onto that before you can slide it up into the mag well.

                  Did you notice how in the filmclips they never seem to be in any real hurry to change a mag
                  Imagine trying to do that with cold hands, in the mud and rain and at night.

                  As for the claim that it doesn't need cleaning or lubricating, yes you did hear it right. I paid particular attention to this weapon after hearing the new company make that claim. They are wrong, plain and simple, but it's all part of their publicity hype. They paid big money for the rights to the AA-12 and to update it and they were desperate to recover their costs.
                  This also had them claiming it was the world's deadliest shotgun - not in the middle of a fumbled mag change it ain't...

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Fix the mag issues and it could be a pretty damn good weapon...
                    Another small issue is the huge size of the drum mags. Most of the volume is basically wasted space. Three 10 round mags look like they are more compact than one drum which is a big issue for soldiers when they've got limited space in their webbing.
                    If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                    Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                    Mors ante pudorem

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I have new toy .... M590A1 Blackwater



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                      http://www.google.com/imgresimgurl=http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossberg_Guns/930/NEW/51772.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mossberg.com/products/default.asp%3Fid%3D26%26display%3Dspecs&h=969&w=4017&sz=215&tbnid=UUxRidEcEiTC_M:&tbnh=33&tbnw=136&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dm590a1%2Bblackwater%2Bpictures%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=m590a1+blackwater+pictures&docid=trvRHlGoSKB_rM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=unVkTvmELo_YiAKI8vG2Cg&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQ9QEwAA

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        How is that relevant to the topic of this thread, the AA-12 besides being a shotgun
                        If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                        Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                        Mors ante pudorem

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by StainlessSteelCynic View Post
                          The AA-12 has one very big issue that I think is probably the main reason it hasn't been adopted in any significant numbers.

                          The magazine is heavy and it doesn't get a lot of support from the magazine well/magazine catch. That 'frame' looking thing that encloses the pistolgrip is actually the magazine support. You have to thread the mag onto that before you can slide it up into the mag well.

                          Did you notice how in the filmclips they never seem to be in any real hurry to change a mag
                          Imagine trying to do that with cold hands, in the mud and rain and at night.

                          As for the claim that it doesn't need cleaning or lubricating, yes you did hear it right. I paid particular attention to this weapon after hearing the new company make that claim. They are wrong, plain and simple, but it's all part of their publicity hype. They paid big money for the rights to the AA-12 and to update it and they were desperate to recover their costs.
                          This also had them claiming it was the world's deadliest shotgun - not in the middle of a fumbled mag change it ain't...
                          I agree with you 100 percent on what you said about the major probelm being how slow the magazine loads are. My USAS-12 has the same damn design feed and the same probelm. It's a great shotgun, but I would not want to have to do a magazine change with someone shooting at me. I used to have a Saiga 12 whichs loads like a AK, but is much slower and cumbersome to reload compared to the rifle. I'm not sure why they didn't design it with a actual mag well.
                          I always roll my eyes when I hear the "dosen't need to be cleaned or lubricated" fairytale.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            It means the AA-12 is a gimic. Pro's use M590's or 870P's if you want a pump and some type of benenlli is you want a semi auto. AA-12 is a munchkin mall ninja gun.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              What it means is that is nothing more than your opinion and based on the limited selection of weapons you personally have used.
                              Can you honestly say you've ever even touched an AA-12, SPAS-15, HK-512, TOZ-194, RO-5

                              I think not....

                              I know I haven't handled more than four shotguns in my entire life and that certainly doesn't make me an expert on weapons I havent' even laid eyes on outside of the internet. I for one am willing to take all designs on face value, apply some logic, and listen to the reports form those who actually have used the things before dismissing them out of hand in favour of the one weapon which was issued to me by the military and which just so happens to fit a fairly rigid set of parameters/political expediancy.
                              If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                              Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                              Mors ante pudorem

                              Comment

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