Alaska and the Soviet Invasion (T2k)

[Webstral]

Way OT:

Where's the plate boundary between North America and Asia Looking at the images posted by ArmySGT, I'm reminded that North America and Asia are more solidly connected than North America and South America. Where is the plate boundary North America and Asia are moving together, which implies that somewhere a mountain range is going up. Where is that

[Ronin]

[Ronin]

Sorry, didnt realise how big the was!

[HorseSoldier]

Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something". I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose. As depicted the Soviets are basically setting themselves up to refight the Winter War in the forests of Finland, only this time with the notional Finns backed up by F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.

[Legbreaker]

I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose.

No doubt that is correct, however what's to say the radically overstretched Soviet intelligence system wasn't in the same boat With war being fought on almost all fronts, the best recce they would have been able to do may have been simply looking at maps and old aerial photos from before the war - basically the same sort of information GDW had access to when they were writing the game.

[HorseSoldier]

Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something". I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose. As depicted the Soviets are basically setting themselves up to refight the Winter War in the forests of Finland, only this time with the notional Finns backed up by F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.

[Webstral]

Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something".

Perhaps that was the whole point. I don't think anybody here believes that the Soviets were trying to conquer the US by way of Alaska, just as no one believes Mexico was trying to conquer the US by invading in 1998. The Soviets had some other objective in mind. I've offered my interpretation, so I won't repeat it here. When the US didn't respond by pulling masses of troops out of Europe, the Middle East, or Korea, mission creep set in for the Soviets. They just kept pushing because the stop line was based on an American reaction, not a line on the map. Eventually, the invaders exhausted themselves, ran out of supplies, and ground to a halt. In the main body of Alaska, this meant withdrawing to Anchorage. Around Juneau, this meant turning coats or heading for the hinterland. In British Columbia, this meant turning warlord.

In a sense, the Soviet invasion of Alaska was a repeat of the invasion of China. The Soviets wanted a specific reaction, and when they didn't get it they were unable to prosecute the offensive to a satisfactory conclusion.

I do agree that GDW probably didn't grasp the Alaskan reality. Heck, I don't. Not really. But if any invader could grasp the realities of moving men and material across the trackless wastes of the North, it's the Soviets. True, they bungled Finland badly. Finland was a mistake of hubris, not genuine inability. Soviet troops in Siberia under Zhukov would have done much better had the Kremlin sent 200,000 of them to Finland.

[Legbreaker]

What Web said....

Here in Australia we have some seriously VAST distances between even marks on a map let alone anything of real note on the ground. Throw in the odd bit of rough terrain such as the Great Dividing Range which runs down the entire eastern coast of the country, or the HUGE deserts and there's some significant challenges to moving around. Even so, I still have difficulties grasping the Alaska situation (possibly due to maps around the poles being so out of whack normally).

The T2K situation can in no way be construed as a fully fledge invasion of North America. Given it was a strategic move with possibly political aims, it begins to make some sort of sense. Tactically it's ludicious.

[ArmySGT.]

Nome simply doesn't provide much an invader could need except a chance to say "we took something".

Provides an Airhead with a supporting harbor and facilities. In the Bering sea which the US Navy woul d find difficult to contest only during the brief summer months. The Shallow crossing points between the Aleautian Islands multiply the effectiveness of a Soviet ASW effort. Combined with some surface warfare vessels and land based aircraft the Soviets can own the Bering Sea and all of the west and north coasts of Alaska.
Nome is centered on the west coast of Alaska with its Soviet counterpart Anadyr on the opposite shore. Roads depart north and south from Nome that while closed to civilians in winter now, the Soviets could open and run in all but the harshest storm. There are additional air fields north and south to move more assets over. The Airspace could be dominated by the Soviets along the west coast, north slope, most of the Aleutians by airbases and strips occupied on Alaskan soil.
I agree it not positioned best for a ground campaign but, once one starts Airborne and Logistical drops can go from there.

I remain of the opinion that GDW didn't truly grasp the enormity of the region, its austerity, and the difficulty of trying to do anything major with the logistical limitations the terrain, minimal road net, and distances involved impose.

Which is all as you have stated, however it is 10% or 20% of the size of the Soviet Arctic. Issues the Soviets will have decades of practical and tested knowledge of dealing with.
Fighting in the Arctic will play right into the Soviets strengths. It will be just like home.

As depicted the Soviets are basically setting themselves up to refight the Winter War in the forests of Finland, only this time with the notional Finns backed up by F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s.

Not a fair comparison of the Soviets in the 1930s versus 2000. That's like comparing Pershing's punitive raid into Mexico to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Karelia forced the Soviets into a narrow frontage that is advantageous to the defender. The Red Army was still undergoing fundamental changes (voting on everything in ranks). Even the equipment was primitive by the standards of the time.

[RN7]

Could the Soviets pull off a succesfull invasion of Alaska Well one way of looking at it would be to see what the US has in Alaska.

According to T2K the US has only three units in Alaska or across the Canadian border.

10th Infantry Division (Mountain)
1st Infantry Brigade (Arctic Recon)
2nd Infantry Brigade (Arctic Recon)

In real life other US forces where also in Alaska around or very near the time of the Twilight War accoring to what I could find.

US Army

6th Light Infantry Division (Fort Richardson)

• 1st Brigade (Fort Richardson)
• 2nd Brigade (Fort Wainwright)
• 6th Combat Aviation Brigade (Fort Wainwright)

Alaska Army National Guard

207th Infantry Group (Anchorage)

• 1-297th Infantry Battalion (Nome)
• 2-297th Infantry Battalion (Bethel)
• 3-297th Infantry Battalion (Kotzebue)
• 4-297th Infantry Battalion (Juneau)
• 5-297th Infantry Battalion (Anchorage)
• 1-207th Aviation Battalion ()

49th Missile Defence Battalion (Fort Greely)

Alaska State Defence Force

49th Readiness Brigade (Fort Richardson)

US Air Force

343rd Combined Wing (Eielson AFB)

• 18th TFS (A-10)
• 25th TASS (A-10)
• 11th TASS (A-10)

21st Tactical Fighter Wing (Elmendorf AFB)

• 43rd TFS (F-15A)
• 54th TFS (F-15A)

962nd AWACs: (Elmendorf AFB)
168th Air Refuelling Wing: Alaska ANG (Eielson AFB)
176th Wing: Alaska ANG (Elmendorf AFB)
210th Rescue Squadron: Alaska ANG (Kullis ANGB)

Military Bases in Alaska
Base Support Unit Kodiak: US Coast Guard
Big Mountain Air Force Station (1x 1,280m gravel): USAF
Casco Cove Coast Guard Station (1x 1,828m asphalt) Attu Island: US Coast Guard
Clear Air Force Station, Anderson: USAF
Fort Richardson (1x 1,273m asphalt), Anchorage: US Army
Fort Greely and Allen Army Airfield (1x 2,743m asphalt, 1x 1,864m asphalt, 1x 1,426m asphalt): US Army
Fort Wainwright and Ladd Army Airfield (1x 2,614m asphalt), Fairbanks: US Army
Eareckson Air Station (1x 3,048m asphalt/grooved), Shemya Island: USAF
Eielson Air Force Base (1x 4,429m concrete), Moose Creek: USAF
Elmendorf Air Base (1x 3,048m asphalt, 1x 2,288m asphalt), Anchorage: USAF
Kullis Air National Guard Base, Anchorage: Alaska National Guard
Naval Air Station Adak (1x 2,374m asphalt, 1x 2,318m asphalt), Adak Island: US Navy
Port Clarence Coast Guard Station (1x 1,372m asphalt): US Coast Guard

The navy has little or no presence in Alaska with the Coast Guard taking over much of its marine responsibility. The US Army and Alaskan forces are on the light side with no heavy armour, although the 6th Combat Aviation Brigade could give them some mobility and some anti-armour capability. Two USAF F-15 squadrons with AWACs are however a potent air defence capability, and three A-10 squadrons are very significant punch for such a remote location unless the US was actually expecting a Soviet invasion all along.

DEW Line and North Warning System Sites (NWS) in Alaska, NWT, Yukon
By the time of the Twilight War the DEW line had been decommissioned and replaced by the NWS. However many NWS stations were built on or near former DEW line stations.
Alaska
Barter Island, Flaxman Island, Lonely, Oliktok Point, Point Barrow, Wainwright
Northwest Territories
Bernard Harbour, Bray Island, Breevort Island, Broughton Island, Cambridge Bay, Cape Dyer, Cape Hooper, Cape McLoughlin, Cape Mercy, Cape Parry, Croker River, Dewar Lakes, Edinburgh Island, Gladman Point, Gloa Haven, Hall Beach, Harding River, Hat Island, Horton River, Jenny Lind Island, Keats Point, Lady Franklin Point, Lailor River, Liverpool Bay, Loks Island, Longstaff Bluff, Nicholson Peninsula, Pelly Bay, Resolution Island, Rowley Island, Shepherd Bay, Simson Lake, Storm Hills, Sturt Point, Tuktoyaktuk
Yukon
Komakuk Beach, Shingle Point, Stokes Point


To get a bridge head in Alaska the Soviets are going to have to take control of some of Alaska's air and sea ports to both land troops and equipment and keep them supplied.

Major seaport of Alaska
Port of Anchorage (Five docking berths at full seaway depth), Nome (Two docking berths at full seaway depth), Port Valdez (Oil terminal), Ketchikan (Ferry port), Juneau (Ferry port), Barrow, Kivilina, Nikiski, Prudhoe Bay. Either Anchorage or Nome have to be taken.

Major civilian airports of Alaska
Cold Bay Airport (1x 3,174m asphalt, 1x 1,291m asphalt) Aleutian Islands
Edward G. Pitka Sr. Airport (1x 2,209m asphalt/concrete, 1x 849m gravel) Galena
Fairbanks International Airport (1x 3,597m asphalt, 1x 1,981m asphalt, 1x 884m gravel, 1x 1,646m water) Fairbanks
Juneau International Airport (1x 2,578m asphalt, 1x 1,494m water) Juneau
Ted Stevens Anchorage international Airport (1x 3,531m asphalt, 1x 3,322m asphalt, 1x 3,231m asphalt) Anchorage

Other airports with asphalt and or concrete runways
Aniak (1x 1,829m asphalt), Annette Island (2,284m asphalt), Barrow (1x 1,981m asphalt), Bethel (1x 1,951m asphalt, 1x 567m gravel), Clear (1x 1,219m asphalt), Deadhorse (1x 1,981m asphalt), Gambell (1x 1,372m asphalt/concrete), Gulkana (1x 1,524m asphalt), Gustavus (1x2,049m asphalt, 1x 959m asphalt), Haines (1x 1,219m asphalt), Hoonah (1x 913m asphalt), Kake (1x 1,219m asphalt), Kenai (1x 2,309m asphalt, 1x 610m gravel), Ketchikan (1x 2,286m asphalt), King Salmon (1x 2,591m asphalt, 1,225m asphalt), Kotzbue (1x 1,798m asphalt, 1x 1,181m gravel),McGrath (1x 1,809m asphalt, 1x 524m asphalt), Nenana (1x 1,402m asphalt), Nome (1x 1,829m asphalt, 1x 1,700m asphalt), Palmer (1x 1,832m asphalt, 1x 1,102m asphalt, 1x 475m gravel), Petersburg (1x 1,829m asphalt), Point Hope (1x 1,219m asphalt), Red Dog Mine (1x 1,924m asphalt), Sitka (1x 1,981m asphalt), Skagway (1x 1,082m asphalt), Talkeetna (1x 1,067m asphalt), Tanacross (1x 1,554m asphalt, 1x 1,524m asphalt, Tok Junction (1x 765m asphalt), Unalakleet (1x 1,798m asphalt, 1x 579m asphalt), Wrangell (1x 1828m asphalt), Valdez (1x 1,981m asphalt), Yakutat (1x 2,261m asphalt, 1x 1,974m concrete)

Other airports
Akhiot (Kodiak Island), Akiak, Allakaket, Anvik, Arctic Village, Atqasuk, Bear Creek, Beluga, Big Lake Airport, Boswell Bay, Cape Sarichef (Aleutian Islands), Chevak, Chisana, Cordova, Council, Crooked Creek, Five Mile, Girdwood, Goose Bay, Granite Mountain, Grayling, Holy Cross, Hooper Bay, Icy Bay, Japonski Island, Kalskag, Karluk, Kasigluk, Kiana, King Cove, Kivalina, Kobuk, Koyukuk, Kwigillingok, Lake Hood, Larsen Bay, Manley Hot Springs, Manokotak, McCarthy, Minto, Nanwalek, Noorvik, Northway, Nyac, Old Harbour (Kodiak Island), Ouzinkie, Port Heiden, Russian Mission, Seldovia, Shaktoolik, Sheldon Point, Shungnak, Sitka, St. Michael, Stebbins, Ugnu-Kuparuk, Wales.

Chico did a good job at showing what the Soviet could throw at Alaska.

http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.phpt=747

[RN7]

I think the 6th Light Infantry Division was sent to Germany in T2K but some of its component units may still be in Alaska.

[Legbreaker]

So, many people here can't understand why the Soviets invaded Alaska....
Why would the American commanders think any differently and position any serious numbers of troops in the region

The Soviets were well known to be heavily engaged on multiple fronts, and generally loosing on all of them in the first half of 1997. All available manpower was NEEDED to shore up those fronts.

The US (and Canadians) were engaged on multiple fronts, and still struggling to get all their units into play. Their focus was squarely on trouncing the Soviets as quickly as they possibly could.

It makes absolutely no sense at all for the US and Canadians to think a Soviet invasion was possible, let alone would be carried out, so therefore, there's no justification whatsoever for boosting the defending units in the Alaskan region.

Once the invasion actually occurred, nukes were being used all over the world, and especially in Europe, NATO was being pushed back under some very serious and almost overwhelming pressure. Every available unit was needed to stem the flow. Meanwhile in Alaska, the terrain may have been counted on to assist the few NATO units to hold back the Soviets. The resources simply were not available to do anything more than that, as to reduce troop levels elsewhere could have resulted in a complete collapse of that front.

Alaska is a sideshow, and a region which obviously had to be sacrificed by the US to avoid crushing defeat in more important theatres.

[Raellus]

Perhaps that was the whole point. I don't think anybody here believes that the Soviets were trying to conquer the US by way of Alaska, just as no one believes Mexico was trying to conquer the US by invading in 1998. The Soviets had some other objective in mind. I've offered my interpretation, so I won't repeat it here. When the US didn't respond by pulling masses of troops out of Europe, the Middle East, or Korea, mission creep set in for the Soviets. They just kept pushing because the stop line was based on an American reaction, not a line on the map. Eventually, the invaders exhausted themselves, ran out of supplies, and ground to a halt. In the main body of Alaska, this meant withdrawing to Anchorage. Around Juneau, this meant turning coats or heading for the hinterland. In British Columbia, this meant turning warlord.

This rationale makes the most sense to me. Soviet boots on American soil is a propaganda victory, if nothing more. If it could also divert American strength from the European theater, it's a double win. If American territory in Alaska could also be used as a bargaining chip in future armistice/peace negotiations, it's a triple win. It's a gamble, but someone in the Soviet leadership must have reckoned that the rewards were worth the risks (losing the units involved, weakening more critical fronts, the embarrasment of failure.) Audacity has won wars.

I'm not looking at the timeline, but does the Soviet invasion of Alaska precede, follow, or correspond with the NATO drive into Soviet territory Perhaps the timing should be considered in the strategic picture.

[Legbreaker]

The invasion occurs just prior to the Soviet counterattack and the commencement of the use of nukes.
My guess is the Soviets had been planning to use nukes for some time and in an effort to maximise the disruption and chaos their opponents would experience, the insertion of Soviet troops into Alaska had to have been part of the overall strategic plan.

Nato are faced with the sudden nuking of their troops in the field, decimating their victorious (to date) armies and at the same time, the US are hit with an invasion at home. If you were the American leadership at this time, you'd be faced with some awful choices to make in very short order - do you react strongly in Alaska and remove the chance of US units in Europe receiving reinforcements and being wiped out, or do you give up the fight in more than a token manner in Alaska I say the choice is fairly easy given that it's not JUST US troops on the line in Europe, but rather the fate of the entire Nato forces. You remove even part of the available military strength desperately retreating across Poland, and you end up with a rout which only stops at the French border (and perhaps not even then).

This isn't to say the US are THE main strength of Nato though - you take out nearly any of the other countries such as Britain and you've got the same result. What would happen though is those units barely able to escape the Soviet onslaught covered by "fresh" reinforcing units would instead have been overrun and destroyed.

[Webstral]

For the purposes of planning and executing an operation like invading Alaska from Siberia, the initiation of nuclear warfare and the invasion of Alaska are pretty much simultaneous. According to the Soviet Vehicle Guide [v1]the first Soviet units to land in Alaska land in July. The first use of nukes occurs on July 9, I believe. Leg may well be right in that the Soviets land in the first week of July. For all intents and purposes, though, the two events are concurrent. If the Soviets started planning and preparing for the invasion of Alaska before the nuclear balloon went up, so to speak, then we have to ask ourselves what the Soviets hoped to accomplish in a conventional war in Alaska.

It would take some nerve on the part of the President and the Joint Chiefs to ignore bellowing from Congress about throwing the Red menace off American soil. However, 1997 isn't an election year. Even the House of Reps would have another year of war before having to run again. Victory in Europe would obviate any Soviet successes in Alaska.