Am I opening a can of worms here? I think I am...M113...

[natehale1971]

In my setting the M113 was phased out by the Armed forces due to the light armor issues. In the light infantry role, the US Army was able to get the German designed Wesiel 2 AWC (the APC version is like a mini-bradley). I have been considering the possibility of a lisence built version being produced for use by the US Armed Forces at factories in the United States.

[ArmySGT.]

i see... the bad thing is, the biggest allies i see getting the M113s that were not sold/given to the police, state guard and territorial guard during the years before the Euro-Soviet War would have been the PRC and Mexico in my altered timeline.

You mean the ROC aka Taiwan right Do they use the M113 Mexico likely does, however their is no Political capital to make foisting them off onto unstable Allies or to woo one away from the other side. Their is a point to refurbishing your own stuff in Depot too. All that Armor out there is usually on loan if it is a display, the DoD still owns it. Unless it was designated surplus / scrapped because these are not being fielded any more.

So I can see them going to South Africa to woo them away from the Soviet sphere and keep the Cape open to NATO see traffic. To the Phillipines our old Friends and Allies in the South Pacific, to Portugal for the Azores Airfields, to Israel to counter the Soviets in Syria, to bolster Turkey as it shares borders with the USSR. To Norway for the same reason. To the FRG to bolster their second echelon units, and the same with Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Luxembourg.

Turning one into a mortar carrier or that level of alteration is possible, given the right tools and materials. Not sure how easy that would be in T2K when every last existing hull is likely to be refurbished rather than altered. Replacing old parts is much simpler than cutting and shutting...

Exactly, faster to remove and replace, then to cut and fabricate. May or May not be improved to a new model, parts and compatibility being an issue.

[ArmySGT.]

In my setting the M113 was phased out by the Armed forces due to the light armor issues. In the light infantry role, the US Army was able to get the German designed Wesiel 2 AWC (the APC version is like a mini-bradley). I have been considering the possibility of a lisence built version being produced for use by the US Armed Forces at factories in the United States.

No more armor than the M113 and less dismounts. The Wiesel is for Airborne / Airmobile forces.

Light Infantry walks to work. Mechanized rides.

[ArmySGT.]

I'll wager the M113 parts are very easy to produce. When I was in Vietnam I saw countless old war era M113s still being used by the military and they wouldn't have been ordering replacement parts from the USA over these last few decades.

One of our NATO allies could well be selling them parts, or even Israel with the US giving it a blind eye. We are wooing the Viets now for business, and as Allies against Red China.

[Fusilier]

One of our NATO allies could well be selling them parts, or even Israel with the US giving it a blind eye. We are wooing the Viets now for business, and as Allies against Red China.

Very possible.

[natehale1971]

You mean the ROC aka Taiwan right Do they use the M113 Mexico likely does, however their is no Political capital to make foisting them off onto unstable Allies or to woo one away from the other side. Their is a point to refurbishing your own stuff in Depot too. All that Armor out there is usually on loan if it is a display, the DoD still owns it. Unless it was designated surplus / scrapped because these are not being fielded any more.

I mean the Peoples Republic of China... with all the arms sales they described in the rulebooks after the start of the Sino-Soviet War, the decommissioned M113's could easily have been part of that lend-lease to the People's Republic to fight the Soviets.

In my setting the South African's were ending apartheid and thus being brought into the NATO allies category to stand against the ever growing Congo Pact.

I hadn't thought about the Phillipines and the Republic of China (Taiwan) getting them... thanks!

So I can see them going to South Africa to woo them away from the Soviet sphere and keep the Cape open to NATO see traffic. To the Phillipines our old Friends and Allies in the South Pacific, to Portugal for the Azores Airfields, to Israel to counter the Soviets in Syria, to bolster Turkey as it shares borders with the USSR. To Norway for the same reason. To the FRG to bolster their second echelon units, and the same with Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands, Luxembourg.

I can see that a well... i was thinking of other locally produced designs being produced for the moderization wave that was adopted after the lessons of Desert Storm that saw improvements and inovations that were adopted a decade ealier than we saw IRL.

Such as the mini-articles on body armor and afew other things that i've been working on.

[ArmySGT.]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m113.htm

[natehale1971]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m113.htm

this is the first thing i saw on that page...

The M113A1, informally known as the Gavin, is a lightly armoured full tracked air transportable personnel carrier designed to carry personnel and certain types of cargo. The M113-family was developed from M59 and M75 by Ford and Kaiser Aluminium and Chemical Co. in the late 1950�s. The vehicle is capable of: amphibious operations in streams and lakes; extended cross country travel over rough terrain; and high speed operation on improved roads and highways.

[Legbreaker]

They obviously need to be slapped around until they remove that damn phrase!
It's clear they simply haven't done proper research to note it's a name that's come from the worlds greatest nutjob!

Edit: I've just emailed fas.org to do just that!

[copeab]

In your world maybe... I don't see something like that happening. New America yes. MilGov... Not so much, they'd see the person who has it as either knowing how to operate or use it. And a resource they would want to use.

And not let the other side have a chance to use him.

The steps for MilGov and CivGov would likely be:

1) Nice offer
2) Threatening offer
3) Bullet to the head

It's a pragmatic matter of survival and neither side can let a valuable resource fall into the other's hands.

I see CivGov and MilGov as both evil, just in slightly different ways.

[natehale1971]

And not let the other side have a chance to use him.

The steps for MilGov and CivGov would likely be:

1) Nice offer
2) Threatening offer
3) Bullet to the head

It's a pragmatic matter of survival and neither side can let a valuable resource fall into the other's hands.

I see CivGov and MilGov as both evil, just in slightly different ways.

Like i said... in your world maybe.

[Legbreaker]

Well, that was a wasted effort, the email address for the fas.org admin is bogus.
I wonder if Sparks is behind fas as well...

[natehale1971]

Well, that was a wasted effort, the email address for the fas.org admin is bogus.
I wonder if Sparks is behind fas as well...

I don't think so...

[Legbreaker]

The amount of places that nut shows up, it wouldn't be a big suprise though...

[natehale1971]

The amount of places that nut shows up, it wouldn't be a big suprise though...

True.. but FAS has been around for a long time. and has alot of things that doesn't really seem like something he'd write.