Nightmare in Libya: 20,000 Surface-to-Air Missiles Missing

[natehale1971]

This is really, really frigthening to learn... It's starting to look like our involvement with Libyan Civil War is really going to come back to bite us in the ass BIG TIME.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/nightm...oryid=14610199

please watch the vidoes... Libyan made mustard gas is ALSO missing.

[DCausey]

This is really scary. I've been leery of this Libya intervention by NATO because we don't know who were getting in the bargain. Could these guys be worse than Al-Quida

And now with these missing weapons in who knows Who's hands....

[pmulcahy11b]

Isn't blowback a wonderful thing

[natehale1971]

I know.... there was evidence that al-Qeada and Muslim Brotherhood were among the leading rebels. But just like what happened in Egypt the administration said we have nothing to fear about the Mulsim Brotherhood. Igoring the fact that a western female reporter was RAPED by several hundred 'peaceful protestors' after one of the screamed out she was a Jew when the spotlights on the camera went out. I've been worried about the 'Arab Spring' since it started... because to many of the 'grassroots' Islamic groups in the middle east have ties to terrorist supporting organizations.

With all the things disappearing in Libya is almost as bad as the things found in Iraq that was severely under reported in the media (Sarin artillery warheads being used for IEDs or the Uranium flown out of the country in 2003 and the rest in 2008 from a nuclear research facility in Iraq), i'm getting really... really, worried about just what weapons can get into Terrorist hands.

All the chaos with the collapse of the Soviet Union and dispearing nuclear warheads was scary as hell in the 1990s. But there was the possibilly of those missing nukes having been accounting errors done by the the soviet bean-counters. With his, they've got pictures and videos of people driving off with TRUCKLOADS of SAM missiles.

[natehale1971]

Isn't blowback a wonderful thing

Yup. what really is a slap in the face, is the fact that if we had done what we PROMISED we'd do in Afghanistan during the Reagan and First Bush Administration we wouldn't have half the problems we've got with islamic terrorists... we had promised the alliance of freedom fighters we'd provide econonomic, politcal and social support for rebuilding their country when the soviets were driven out. But instead we just left without doing what we promised, and the Taliban came to power because the secular allies we supported just wasn't able to maintain enough public support to keep a secular government in power.

It's one of the reasons why the Second Bush Administration spent so much time, effort and money on nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan hoping we can keep terrorists from getting a stable place to build a base to support them. But in doing that we have supported corrupt officials and social acts in an attempt to cut corners because of political reasons.

:Shakes head:

there are no easy answers... but my grandparents use to say "nothing worth doing is really easy to do" and that "If you're going to do a job, take your time and do it right"

[Webstral]

I'm sure some of the SAM will turn up in Europe or the United States as soon as can be managed.

[Ronin]

The SAM's honestly don't worry me as much as the chemical weapons. We here in the states need to be more prepared for their possible use. But in Europe, how many times have you heard of say the RIRA, or who ever trying to buy, or found in one of their arms caches. But mustard agent seems a far scarier concept. Besides being used offensively. Its also a area denial agent. Imagine trying decontaminate Washington DC. Till then its off limits. Lots of potential for mayhem.

[LVI]

The SAM's honestly don't worry me as much as the chemical weapons. We here in the states need to be more prepared for their possible use. But in Europe, how many times have you heard of say the RIRA, or who ever trying to buy, or found in one of their arms caches. But mustard agent seems a far scarier concept. Besides being used offensively. Its also a area denial agent. Imagine trying decontaminate Washington DC. Till then its off limits. Lots of potential for mayhem.

So is the thought of the SAM's being used against passenger airliners going from europe to NA.

[Ronin]

I'm just saying I feel we already face that threat.

[Webstral]

The chemicals won't be fun, either. Just imagine the effect of a chemical attack on the US will have on the Bill of Rights. The only positive outcome of such a thing that leaps to mind is some lawyers arguing in support of the Fourth Amendment being tarred and feathered. Mind, I'm not anti-Fourth Amendment. Just anti-lawyer.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

A chemical attack on US soil - or shutting down air traffic courtesy of some well-timed SAM attacks - would be that last little push our country needs to fall completely into the abyss, I think.

I mean, financially - the market would panic. We'd take most of the world down with us, too, since right now even though they're on safe-but-shaky ground the European Union couldn't absorb the shock of a 2- or 3-thousand point one-day drop. With Greece inevitably defaulting in such a situation and the initial wallop, the world economic markets would be mortally wounded.

Of course an additional after-effect would be stuff that'd make the Patriot Act look cute by comparison. The inevitable further curtailing of civil liberties (imagine the TSA doing random stops on freeway on-ramps to search cars, questioning you and why you're taking a given drive) would at this point, as fed up as people are now lead to riots, which would cause further crackdowns.

These are dangerous days we're living. I wish it hadn't come to this.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Here's a comforting-ish thought though, framed as a question...what's the shelf life on these

I remember early on during Operation Bomb the Fuck Out of Afghanistan Then March in and Somehow Not Wind Up Like Alexander, the British, the Indians and the Russians there were questions of our FiM-92s being used against us, but the common answer seemed to be that the batteries were probably long dead, and the cryogenic component for the warheads was long "flat", too.

If these are vintage Strelas, they might not be good for much more than shoulder-fired HE rockets. If that.

[ArmySGT.]

Here's a comforting-ish thought though, framed as a question...what's the shelf life on these

I remember early on during Operation Bomb the Fuck Out of Afghanistan Then March in and Somehow Not Wind Up Like Alexander, the British, the Indians and the Russians there were questions of our FiM-92s being used against us, but the common answer seemed to be that the batteries were probably long dead, and the cryogenic component for the warheads was long "flat", too.

If these are vintage Strelas, they might not be good for much more than shoulder-fired HE rockets. If that.

Solid rocket fuel degrades. First Gen IR seeker. To long to hide under a trench coat at the Mall.

[pmulcahy11b]

You know, this cycle has happened several times in history before. Repressive government to relatively free country to repressive again to revolution to democracy to repressive government...

The saying doesn't actually say, " History repeats itself." That's a bad misquote. The actual quote is, "Those who do not remember the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them." And mankind has a really bad memory.

No superpower lasts forever. Our British and Spanish friends on this board know that well. Both countries were once superpowers -- at its height, Britain had a better claim to the title of "superpower" than the US has ever had. What does that tell you about the future of the US

Remember, history is cyclic. The exact events are different, but the overall pattern remains the same.

[ArmySGT.]

I am less concerned by the mustard gas. In the Libyan climate if it wasn't stored properly (properly is not an arabic word), the stuff has likely degraded into fertilizer.