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Manchuria, China, and the Far Eastern Front

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  • #46
    The Military Balance Series -- is it a set of books or a web site Or a magazine series Sounds interesting.
    I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons...First We Take Manhattan, Jennifer Warnes

    Entirely too much T2K stuff here: www.pmulcahy.com

    Comment


    • #47
      It was a series of at least 4 books by Trevor Dupuy, they have been out of print since the 1990s. I'm lucky enough to own the 1982 and 1984 versions.

      Another good one the Almanac of World Military Power, also by Dupuy, there are supposed to be at least two books in this series, I own the 1980 version.

      I have no idea if they are available on any web site, and I haven't seen them available through Amazon or eBay, at least not yet.
      The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by dragoon500ly View Post
        12 Honest John SSMs
        Aren't all of these 1 Kiloton nuclear warheads

        Kinda favors the south doesn't it.

        The 203mm can throw a 1 kt nuke but, I am sure the honest John only had one warhead type.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by ArmySGT. View Post
          Aren't all of these 1 Kiloton nuclear warheads

          Kinda favors the south doesn't it.

          The 203mm can throw a 1 kt nuke but, I am sure the honest John only had one warhead type.
          Near as I can figure out, if there are any nuke warheads, then they are under US control. The Honest Johns were supposed to have been deactivated in the 1992-1994 period, but, I've also heard that the ROKs have developed a HE warhead, but again, I've not seen anything concrete about that.
          The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by pmulcahy11b View Post
            I personally don't think they'll have the support of China or Russia (assuming we're not talking T2K here -- in T2K, the DPRK's nuclear program would be in its infancy) in real life. China has condemned the DPRK's actions, many times over the past few years, and they don't want refugees from the North in China -- to the point of often shooting those who try to cross illegally. The Russians -- they may give material support, but their support for the DPRK has been waning the past decade -- the DPRK doesn't have enough cash or resources to keep Russia interested. The ROKs actually have more up-to-date Russian-built equipment and vehicles in some cases.
            IRL, the DPRK has almost no chance of knocking out the ROKs, conventional or nuclear (as long as the US maintains a presence in the south). But it is interesting to read about the balancing act that the north has to maintain to avoid falling under control of the Sino/Soviets. It almost makes one wonder if WWIII did break out, will the DPRK simply declare itself neutral

            But canon has the north invading the south...
            The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

            Comment


            • #51
              And here are the Republic of the Philippines

              Population: 50,800,000
              Army: 60,000
              5 infantry divisions
              1 special warfare bde (consists of 2 ranger, 1 mountain bn and 5 scout coys)
              2 engineer bdes
              1 light armored regiment
              4 artillery regiments

              28 Scorpion light tanks
              80 M-113 APCs
              20 Chaimite APCs
              200 105mm towed hows
              12 155mm towed hows
              108 81mm mortars
              24 107mm mortars
              150 75mm/90mm/106mm RCLs
              (on order 12 UH-1H helos)
              Reserves: 20,000 forming 18 infantry bns; another 70,000 with reserve commitments

              Navy: 28,000 (including 9,600 marines and 2,000 Coast Guard)
              7 ex-US frigates (4 Casco, 1 Savage, 1 Cannon)
              10 corvettes
              3 FAC(M)
              16 large patrol craft
              59 coastal patrol craft
              3 support ships
              24 LSTs, 4 LSMs, 61 LCMs, 3 LCUs, 7 LCVPs
              1 SAR sqn with 9 Islander ac, 5 BO-105 helos
              3 marine bdes (total 9 bns) with 30 LVTP-5, 55 LVTP-7 APCs, 46 105mm towed hows, 100 107mm mortars
              Reserves: 12,000

              Air Force: 16,800
              1 FGA sqn with 24 F-8H
              1 interceptor sqn with 19 F-5A, 3 F-5B
              1 fighter/training sqn with 10 T-34A
              1 COIN sqn with 16 SD-260WP
              2 COIN sqns with 20 T-28D
              1 Helicopter wing with 50 UH-1H
              1 Presidential tpt sqn with 1 Boeing 707, 1 BAC-111, 1 YS-11 ac, 1 S-62A, 2
              UH-1N, 1 Puma helo
              1 tpt sqn with 4 C-130H
              1 tpt sqn with 5 C-47, 8 F-27, 3 F-27MR
              1 tpt sqn with 12 Nomad
              1 tpt sqn with 12 Islander
              1 helo sqn with 12 BO-105
              1 liaison sqn with 4 O-1E, 1 Cessna U-17A, 8 Beaver (being withdrawn)
              1 weather sqn with 3 Cessna 210
              (on order 16 Bell 412, 17 S-76, 2 S-70A5 helos)
              Reserves: 16,000

              Paramilitary Forces:
              Philippine Constabulary: 43,500 forming 1 bde, 13 bns and 180 coys (by law part of armed forces)
              Civil Home Defense Force: 65,000

              Since its independence in 1946, the Philippines has relied almost exclusively upon the US for external security and used its armed forces essentially for internal security. Recently, the ROP has attempted to establish itself as an independent, nonaligned nation. It maintains its long standing relationship with the US, but it also emphasizes its ties with Japan and its fellow ASEAN nations (Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand). Since 1972, it has established diplomatic relations with twelve Communist countries (including the USSR and the PRC) and has also worked for friendly relations with the Arab nations.

              Between 1946 and 1950, the Communist-inspired Hukbalahap insurgency came close to destroying the ROP. In between 1952 and 1954, this insurgency was almost eliminated by a combination of military force and clemency. In recent years, however, the insurgency has revived. It centers in the north of the Philippines on Luzon. Martial law was imposed in 1972 to deal with the problem and the estimated number of insurgents dropped from 3,000 to 1,000. However, in 1977 it reportedly rose again to 2,000. Government forces have successfully contained the rebels (now called the New People's Army).

              A more serious problem for the ROP is the separatist Moslem rebellion in the southern Philippines, on Mindanao and in the Sulu Archipelago. This insurrection broke out in 1968 and intensified in 1972. More than 20,000 people have been killed since then and as many as 50,000 military personnel have deployed into the area every year. The rebels obtain arms from Libya, which also attempts to mediate. A ceasefire was arranged in 1976, but collapsed within a year. Both negotiations have recently been hampered by conflict with the rebel Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF).

              Externally, the Philippines has a ongoing dispute with neighboring Malaysia over the ownership of the state of Sabah, in northeastern Borneo (it is through Sabah that weapons from Libya have been funneled to the MNLF). Malaysia now exercises sovereignty over Sabah, having inherited the 29,000 square mile region from Great Britain. The ROP claims that Britain never legally owned Sabah, which was part of the territory of the Sultan of Sulu, whose island domain is now part of the ROP. Neither side is believed likely to go to war over the dispute, and diplomatic relations, once severed, were resumed in 1969 with agreement that the Sabah dispute be held in abeyance for the time being.

              Since 1946, the US has provided some $512.7 million in military assistance as well as substantial economic aid and some $700 million in war rehabilitation in grants and damage claims. A US Military Advisory Group provided extensive advice and assistance and was particularly useful during the Hukbalahap insurgency. To bolster the defense of the ROP, the US entered into three agreements: (1) the Military Bases Agreement which gave the US a ninety-nine year lease on certain military, air and naval bases (now defunct). (2) the Military Assistance Agreement wherein the US pledged to provide military assistance to the ROP (ongoing). (3) the Mutual Defense Treaty in which the ROP and the US pledged to defend each other in the case of foreign attack (ongoing)

              The Philippines was an active member in the now-disbanded Southeast Asia Treaty Organization, was strongly opposed to the extension of Communist influence in the region and supported the US war in Vietnam, contributing a 2,000 man civil action group to aid community development efforts. Since the end of the Vietnam War, while maintaining its alliance with the US, it has established friendly ties with Communist and Arab countries and joined the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).
              The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

              Comment


              • #52
                and in the ongoing look at the Far East, here is Malaysia on the eve of the Twilight War

                Population: 14,500,000
                Army: 80,000
                4 division HQ (according to Military Balance, these control variable number of bdes)
                9 infantry bdes (total of 36 infantry battalions)
                3 cavalry regiments
                4 field artillery regiments
                1 APC regiment
                2 AA Arty bns
                1 special warfare regiment
                5 engineer regiments

                140 AML-series armd cars
                60 Ferret scout cars
                200 V-100/-150 Commando APCs
                40 Condor APCs
                12 5.5-inch guns
                92 105mm pack hows
                120 81mm mortars
                40 89mm RL
                100 Carl Gustav RCLs
                5 120mm RCL
                36 SS-11 ATGM
                35 40mm AA guns
                (on order, 51 Scorpion light tanks; 162 Sibmas APCs; 20 Stormer APCs, 459 Condor APCs)
                Reserves:
                Malaysian Territorial Army: 45,000
                Local Defense Corps: 15,000

                Navy: 8,700
                2 frigates (1 Yarrow, 1 Type 41)
                8 FAC(M)
                8 FAC(G)
                22 large patrol craft
                2 Ton-class coastal minesweepers
                2 LST
                1 support ship
                (on order 4 FAC(M); 4 minehunters, 1 ammunition ship)
                Reserves: 1,000

                Air Force: 11,000
                2 FGA sqns with 14 F-5E, 4 F-5F
                2 COIN-training sqns with 11 CL-41G (being replaced by A-4)
                1 MR sqn with 3 PC-130H
                1 tpt sqn with 6 C-130H
                1 tpt sqn with 2 HS-125, 2 F-28, 12 Cessna 402B
                2 tpt sqns with 15 DHC-4A
                2 helo sqns with 38 S-61A
                2 helo sqns with 27 Alouette III
                1 training sqn with 10 Bulldog 102, 6 PC-7
                1 training sqn with 7 Bell 47, 3 UH-1H helos
                (on order 34 A-4S, 6 TA-4, 12 MB-339, 38 PC-7)

                Paramilitary Forces:
                Police Field Force: 19,000 forming 21 bns equipped with Shorland armd cars, SB-301 APCs, 40 small patrol boats, 4 Cessna 206, 1 C-130H, 1 HS-125M.
                People's Volunteer Corps: 350,000

                Strategic problems facing Malaysia are (1) the ethnic division of the population, especially between ethnic Chinese and Malays; (2) dangers of a revival of insurgency particularly by ethnic Chinese; (3) the long air-sea lines of communications (roughly 400 miles by air) between peninsular West Malaysia and insular East Malaysia (the states of Sarawak and Sabah in Borneo).

                Political power in Malaysia traditionally has been in Malay hands, while economic power has been held by others, chiefly the Chinese, who nearly equal in numbers to the Malay in West Malaysia. From time to time, ethnic violence between the two groups threatens to erupt over imagined or real grievances. The largest outbreak occurred in 1969 leading to a state of emergency that lasted until 1971 and the danger of renewed violence always lurks close to the surface. The ethnic split extends into the military, where the Royal Malay Regiment recruits exclusively among Malay.

                During the 1947-1960 Communist insurgency, most of the insurgents where ethnic Chinese. The remnants of the insurgents retreated north of the Thai border in 1959-60 and they have been recruiting, training and conducting propaganda efforts since. The terrorist groups now contain large numbers of ethnic Malay and Chinese recruited and based in Thailand. Cooperation between Malaysian military and police and various Thai authorities has been less than satisfactory from Malaysia's perspective, although combined operations in 1977-78 did succeed in penetrating long-time insurgent base areas. The People's Republic of China continues to support the Communist Party of Malaya, mostly through propaganda, although the PRC's government has declared the Malaysian insurgency an internal problem of the Malaysian government.

                East Malaysia has generally presented no major problems since the end of the confrontation with Indonesia in 1966. Small, isolated bands of terrorists near the Sarawak-Kalimantan boundary have limited mischief value. The issue of Sabah has caused diplomatic problems with the Philippines but is not likely to lead to open conflict.

                Currently, Malaysia is fully responsible for its own security, although Australia and New Zealand maintains a small military advisory group.

                Malaysia is a member of the Five-Power Defense Pact. It is also a member of ASEAN.
                The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                Comment


                • #53
                  The Republic of Singapore on the eve of the Twilight War...the Military Balance series and the Almanac of World Military Power are the sources.

                  Population: 2,500,000
                  Army: 45,000
                  1 armd bde
                  3 inf bdes
                  6 arty bns
                  1 commando bn
                  6 engineer bns

                  273 AMX-13 light tanks
                  720 M-113 APCs
                  250 V-150/-200 Commando APCs
                  36 155mm towed hows
                  100 60mm mortars
                  80 81mm mortars
                  50 120mm mortars
                  20 89mm RL
                  200 Carl Gustav RCLs
                  90 106mm RCLs
                  40 20mm AA guns
                  30 40mm AA guns
                  Reserves: 150,000 forming 2 armd divs, 18 infantry bns, 1 commando bn, 9 arty bns, and 6 engineer bns.

                  Navy: 4,500
                  9 FAC(M)
                  3 large patrol craft
                  12 Swift-class small patrol craft
                  2 coastal minesweepers
                  6 LST, 6 LCVP
                  (on order 3 FAC(M))

                  Air Force: 6,000
                  2 FGA sqns with 41 A-4S/S1, 6 TA-4S
                  2 FGA sqns with 21 Hunter FGA-74, 7 Hunter FR-74S, 4 Hunter T-75S
                  1 interceptor sqn with 24 F-5E, 3 F-5F
                  1 tpt/SAR sqn with 8 C-130B/H, 6 Skyvan
                  2 helo sqns with 36 UH-1B/H, 3 AB-212, 6 AS-350B
                  1 training sqn with 18 BAC-167, 6 Jet Provost (nonoperational )
                  1 training sqn with 11 SF-260W, 12 SF-260MS
                  1 training sqn with 20 T-33A
                  1 SAM sqn with 28 Bloodhound II
                  1 SAM sqn with 10 Rapier
                  1 SAM sqn with 6 IHAWK
                  1 SAM sqn with 12 RBS-70
                  (on order 71 A-4S [being rebuilt])

                  Paramilitary Forces:
                  Police/Marine Police: 7,500; 10 small patrol craft
                  People's Defense Force: 30,000

                  At independence in 1965, Singapore had virtually no defense forces. The Singapore Regiment had more foreigner on its roles than Singaporeans. Since then, the government has taken energetic steps to build up its armed forces and replace expatriates with native Singaporeans. This is a deliberate policy to use the services as a means of integrating the diverse ethnic strains of the population.

                  Under the Five-Power Defense Pact, a New Zealand Army battalion (less one company) and a Royal Australian Air Force flight are maintained on station in Singapore. Units of the New Zealand and Australian navies call at Singapore from time to time and they, along with forces stationed in the republic, carry out combined maneuvers.

                  It is difficult to consider the defense of Singapore separate from the defense of Malaysia. However, the circumstances surrounding Singapore's secession from Malaysia, as well as other factors have limited cooperation between the armed forces of the two states. Singapore has pursued defense policies designed to demonstrate the credibility of going it alone, while, at the same time, it maintains a close watch on security matters in West Malaysia.

                  Limited training areas have hampered the armed services, especially the army. At one time, army units were deployed to Taiwan for battalion-level training, but this has been halted. Talks are currently being held about the feasibility of using training areas in the Philippines.

                  Singapore is a member of the Five-Power Defence Pact that includes Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom. Singapore also belongs to ASEAN. It is considered to be very likely that Singapore would enter into a regional security arrangement if this should prove feasible.
                  The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Looking over the numbers for Singapore and the South Korea...its hard to guess who has a stronger military, as a percentage of the overall population....
                    The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by dragoon500ly View Post
                      But it is interesting to read about the balancing act that the north has to maintain to avoid falling under control of the Sino/Soviets. It almost makes one wonder if WWIII did break out, will the DPRK simply declare itself neutral

                      But canon has the north invading the south...
                      It's hard to imagine the Kims not taking the chance to retake the South, feasible or otherwise. With American troops engaged in Europe, Korea will never get another such chance. Surely the USSR would promise something to the DPRK to get Red Koreans crossing the border.
                      “We’re not innovating. We’re selectively imitating.” June Bernstein, Acting President of the University of Arizona in Tucson, November 15, 1998.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Webstral View Post
                        It's hard to imagine the Kims not taking the chance to retake the South, feasible or otherwise. With American troops engaged in Europe, Korea will never get another such chance. Surely the USSR would promise something to the DPRK to get Red Koreans crossing the border.
                        True, but one can almost see the Kims taking a neutral course, at least until the super powers were no longer able to intervene and then striking when the South least expects it. Especially if they can get their hands on some nuclear warheads for their FROGs. But its just idle musing.

                        IRL, the Kims are fully capable of convincing themselves that the time is right for the long awaited liberation of the South ala Red Phoenix.
                        The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          And here is the Socialist Republic of Vietnam at the start of the Twilight War.
                          Sources are the Military Balance series and the Almanac of World Military Power.

                          Population: 57,200,000
                          Army: 1,200,000
                          1 armd div
                          58 infantry divs (ranging in strength from 5,000 to 15,000)
                          10 marine bdes
                          7 engineer divisions
                          15 economic construction divisions (and no I have no idea what they really do)
                          4 independent engineer bdes
                          6 independent armored regts

                          [much ex-US equipment is inoperable]
                          1,500 T-34/-54/-55/-62/Type 59 MBTs
                          400 M-48 MBTs
                          450 PT-76/Type 60/Type 63/M-41 light tanks
                          300 M-8/M-20/BRDM-2 armored cars
                          1,500 BTR-50/-60/Type 56/K-63 APCs
                          800 M-113/V-100 Commando APCs
                          300 76mm/85mm/100mm/122mm guns
                          200 130mm guns/M-107 SP 175mm hows
                          400 75mm pack/105mm/122mm/155mm towed hows
                          100 152mm towed hows
                          200 M-109A1 SP 155mm/M-110 SP 203mm hows
                          90 SU-76/SU-100/ISU-122 assault guns
                          400 Type 63 107mm/BM-21 122mm/BM-14-6 140mm MRLs
                          2,000 81mm/82mm/107mm/120mm/160mm mortars
                          1,800 75mm/82mm/107mm RCLs
                          4,000 23mm/30mm/37mm/40mm/57mm/85mm/100mm/130mm AA guns
                          400 Type 63 37mm/M-42 40mm/ZSU-23-4/ZSU-57/2 SP AA guns
                          800 SA-2/-3/-6/9 SAMs

                          Navy: 8,000
                          4 frigates (2 ex-Sov, 2 ex-US)
                          8 FAC(M)
                          8 FAC(T)
                          12 large patrol craft
                          9 coastal patrol craft
                          6 LST (3 ex-Sov, 3 ex-US)
                          1 SAR sqn with 10 Mi-4

                          Air Force: 12,500
                          3 FGA sqns with 68 MiG-17/F-5A, 43 Su-7/-20
                          6 interceptor sqns with 176 MiG-21bis/F/PF
                          transports include 20 An-2/Li-2; 9 AN-24; 50 An-26; 2 An-30; 6 Tu-34;
                          11 Yak-40; 7 Il-14; 2 Il-18; 2 C-130B; 1 DC-3; 4 DC-4; 2 DC-6;
                          2 Boeing 707; 7 U-17
                          Helos include 22 Mi-6; 38 Mi-8; 22 Mi-24; 14 Ka-25; 49 UH-1
                          17 SAM regts with 400 SA-2/-3

                          Paramilitary Forces:
                          Border Defense Forces: 60,000
                          Militia: 1,500,000

                          In the wake of the collapse of South Vietnam in 1975, the armed forces assumed responsibility for garrisoning the south, rooting out the remaining resistance forces and providing cadres to assist in the administration of the newly won territory and its population. At the same time, they had to provide continued support for their allies in Laos. Rather than demobilize, available evidence indicated that Vietnam actually increased the size of its military.

                          During the post war period, the military, in addition to its normal role, also assumed responsibility for reconstruction, including support for ambitious plans to increase agriculture and industry as well as long-term massive internal shifts of population.

                          As relations with Cambodia and China became strained, Vietnam's military was under pressure to provide more protection for the nation's borders. After several years of border incidents, the government sent troops into Cambodia in 1978. Assisted by anti-Khmer Rouge forces, they rapidly gained control of virtually all of Cambodia and deposed the Pol Pot government. China reacted by invading Vietnam in 1979. Chinese made significant gains, but before the strongly resisting Vietnamese could mobilize on a major scale, Peking ordered its troops to withdraw. By mid 1979, Vietnam had friendly neighbors in Cambodia and Laos and a stable condition on the Chinese border.

                          The increasing acerbity of Sino-Vietnamese relations, resulting in the cessation of all assistance from China and the cutting of land communications from the USSR through China, compels Vietnam to rely more on shipping from Eastern Europe and the USSR. However, available port facilities in Vietnam are limited. This resulted in a joint USSR-Vietnamese effort to restore and improve the US-constructed port at Cam Ranh Bay in return for increased Soviet assistance. With the granting of basing rights to the Red Navy, China has been further alienated by the increased the PRC's apprehension about the Soviet's presence in Southeastern Asia waters.

                          As Vietnam's relations with China worsen, Vietnamese diplomatic efforts among the AESAN states has increased, an indicator of Hanoi's sense of isolation. Thailand, omitted from the early Vietnamese efforts as a demonstration of residual Vietnamese resentment of the Thai role in the Indochina War, was included with its AESAN partners.

                          Vietnam relied on and received heavy and continuing economic and military support from the USSR and the PRC prior to 1975. When China withdrew its support, Vietnam relied on the massive amounts of US equipment captured with the fall of the South. But as the use of this equipment has used up available stockpiles of spare parts, Vietnam has increased its reliance on the USSR.
                          The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            (weirdly enough, if things keep trending the way they are we may well end up as military allies with Vietnam...go figure!)
                            THIS IS MY SIG, HERE IT IS.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Just for grins, here is what the Military Balance and World Military Powers has to say about Australia at the start of the Twilight War (please! be gentle!!!)

                              Population: 15,438,000
                              Army: 32,850
                              1 infantry divisions (of 3 bdes of 2 inf bns ea)
                              1 armored regt
                              2 cavalry regts
                              4 artillery regiments (1 med, 2 field, 1 AD)
                              1 field engineer regt
                              1 construction regt
                              1 Special Air Services regiment
                              1 aviation regt
                              1 transport regiment
                              1 transport air support regt

                              103 Leopard 1A3 MBT
                              790 M-113 APC (includes 63 fitted with 76mm guns [48 w/Scorpion; 15
                              w/Saladin turrets])
                              34 5.5-inch guns
                              227 105mm hows
                              51 106mm RCLs
                              20 Rapier SAMs
                              16 Porter ac
                              11 Nomad ac
                              47 Bell 206B-1 helos
                              87 LARC-5 amph vehicles
                              (on order 36 M-198 155mm hows)
                              Reserves: 30,306

                              Navy: 17,146 (including Fleet Air Arm)
                              6 Oberon-class d-e subs
                              3 Perth-class destroyers
                              2 Adelaide-class frigates
                              6 River-class frigates
                              20 large patrol craft
                              2 Ton-class MCM
                              6 LCT
                              1 transport
                              1 destroyer tender
                              1 fleet tanker

                              Fleet Air Arm: 1,650
                              1 composite sqn with 7 S-2G, 2 HS-748 (ECM)
                              1 ASW sqn with 6 Sea King Mk 50
                              1 utility/SAR sqn with 16 Wessex 31B, 4 UH-1B, 4 Bell 206B helos
                              1 training sqn with 5 MB-326H, 2 TA-4G, 4 A-4G
                              In storage: 10 S-2G, 3 MB-326ac, 3 Wessex helo
                              (on order 2 Adelaide-class frigates, 6 large patrol craft, 2 MCM catamarans, 6 AS-530 helos, 2 Sea King helos)

                              Reserves: 1,200 with 5 small patrol craft, 1 LCT

                              Air Force: 22,477
                              2 FGA/recon sqns with 16 F-111C, 4 F-111A, 4 RF-111C
                              3 interceptor sqns with 56 Mirage IIIO
                              2 MR sqns with 10 P-3B, 10 P-3C
                              1 OCU sqn with 15 Mirage IIIO/D, 10 MB-326H
                              1 forward air controller flight with 6 CA-25 Winjeel
                              2 tpt sqns with 24 C-130E/H
                              1 tpt flight with 4 Boeing 707-338 (converting to tankers)
                              1 tpt sqn with 4 DHC-4 ac, 4 UH-1B helo
                              1 tpt sqn 15 DHC-4
                              1 tpt sqn with 2 BAC-111, 2 HS-748, 3 Mystere 20
                              1 med tpt helo sqn with 8 CH-47 Chinook
                              2 utility helo sqns with 35 UH-1B/H
                              Trainers include 64 MB-326H, 8 HS-748T2, 51 CT-4/4A
                              In storage: 4 CH-47 Chinook helos
                              (on order 75 F/A-18A FGA/interceptors, 10 P-3C MR/ASW, 12 AS-530 helos)
                              Reserves: 1,200


                              In 1957, Australia made a fundamental decision to relate the organization and the equipping of its armed forces to United States patterns, which was a major shift from Australia's traditional military relationship with the United Kingdom. While this did not mean any loosening of Australia's Commonwealth ties, it did mean that Australia was realistically conforming to the changed pattern of power in the Pacific and Southwest Asia, where Britain was deliberately reducing its military commitments and responsibilities.

                              Australia supported the now disbanded Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) and its commitment to the defense of South Vietnam against Communist aggression. It sent troops to fight beside the Americans and South Vietnamese, while at the same time undertaking a civil program in SOuth Vietnam coordinated with those of the Vietnamese and American governments. In 1971, the Australian troop contingent was withdrawn. A new Labor Party government stopped all participation in the Indochina War in 1972.

                              The announced withdrawl of most United Kingdom forces from Southeast Asia in 1972 posed a difficult problem for Australia, with its limited population. However, the Five-Power Pact of 1971 has provided a solution that appears satisfactory to all concerned: Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore and the United Kingdom. Australia's contribution to the Australia-New Zealand-U.K. (ANZUK) Force consists of units of the three nations, some on permanent station and some on rotation. With headquarters in Singapore, units also serve in Malaysia. In emergency, the bulk of the five-power forces would come from Malaysia and Singapore.

                              Several years after World War II, Australia abandoned wartime conscription and returned to a policy of voluntary enlistment. This failed to provide adequate manpower and in 1965 Australia returned to a limited selective service system, in which young men served for 18 months followed by 3 years in the reserve. Conscription was abolished again in 1972.

                              In general, due to Australia's remoteness from the conflicts of Europe and Asia and its insular geography, strategic problems have been relatively minor. However, with the British decision to withdraw from Southeast Asia and the Indian Ocean, and the impact of modern weapons and transportation technologies, Australia has become more directly concerned with affairs in Asia, particularly Southeast Asia.

                              Australians are worried about the attraction that their large, rich and sparsely populated country has for the overpopulated nations of East and Southeast Asia. They are particularly concerned that Indonesia, having obtained West Irian (western New Guinea) from the Netherlands, may wish to extend farther eastward to threaten formerly Australian Papua New Guinea. Australia opposed Indonesian incorporation of formerly Portuguese East Timor in 1976.

                              There are also possibly long term strategic implications in the growing dependence of the Australian economy on trade with Japan. In 1976, a Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation was signed with Japan.

                              Australia has recently become concerned about Soviet expansion into the Indian Ocean. In 1976 the new Liberal-National government began a five-year $15 billion program to enlarge and update the armed services.

                              On a wholly cooperative basis, Australia exchanges students at military schools with the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Canada and the United States and exchanges information with these nations within existing alliances. Otherwise, Australia is not the recipient of any formal military assistance.

                              Australia provided $40.6 million in military assistance to both Malaysia and Singapore between 1964 and 1969. This was accomplished through training missions, either by training in Australia or by transfer of equipment.

                              Australia is a member of four major overlapping alliances. First, as a member of the Commonwealth, Australia maintains close military ties with the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and to a lesser extent with Canada and the other Commonwealth nations, and it is a member of the Five-Power Pact.

                              Second, Australia has had a bilateral mutual assistance treaty with the US since 1951. Third, there have been formal and informal cooperative bilateral defense arrangements between Australia and New Zealand, aside from their Commonwealth relationship, since World War II. Fourth, these two bilateral relationships were linked together formally in the Australia-New Zealand-United States (ANZUS) Treaty in 1952.
                              The reason that the American Army does so well in wartime, is that war is chaos, and the American Army practices chaos on a daily basis.

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                              • #60
                                That unit list for Australia only deals with the regular army and has completely skipped over the reserve forces (which form another Division and round out the first).
                                If it moves, shoot it, if not push it, if it still doesn't move, use explosives.

                                Nothing happens in isolation - it's called "the butterfly effect"

                                Mors ante pudorem

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