military intelligence operations groups...

[natehale1971]

Is there anyone here with experience of wrking in the Military Intelligence branch Namely knowing how an Operations Group would be organzed and operated... This is what i've gotten so far.. And need some help on figuring out how the heiarchy and organixation of a Full Black Intelligence/coutner terrorism operations group would be set up...

"We have been off the books since 2003 and our startup budget was hidden in the funding for Operation Iraqi Freedom. You know all that money that disappeared yeah, that was us. Thanks to forward planning we are almost completely self-sufficient and self-funding now. The only people in the Federal Government who actually know about us, are all part of this organization and its support network We are unofficially officially working on the behalf of the American people. Each of us swears an oath to do whatever it takes to protect the United States Constitution and the citizens of the United States of America against all enemies foreign or domestic. To follow all leads to where ever, or to whomever they my lead. Our charter is that no one is beyond reproach, that if we find evidence of conspiracy against the Republic that leads back to the White House itself We are to deal with it, with the same zeal that we go after Islamofacist terrorists."

"During the nearly ten years since we got our start, the Stonycreek Operations Group has established a network of Black Sites and safehouses all over the planet. This includes air and sea assets. We have a couple of nice oil tankers and tramp freighters that we use to hide in plain sight. Hell, weve even got some of those fancy Predator UAVs to call our own. "

"Among those assets that had been set aside for our use is access to several decommissioned spy and communications satellites that were to have been moved into the graveyard orbit but instead are still very operational and active."

"Now you are asking yourself why are you here well, the answer is simple. You have talents we need."

"So welcome to club"

The Stonycreek Operations Group

When President George W. Bush created the Stonycreek Operations Group, the initial funds that established the organization had come from the money from the US-Administered fund for rebuilding Iraq. He also created a means that would allow the operations group to get a routine infusion of funds namely allowing the Stonycreek Operations Group to confiscate and use the funds taken from those terrorist groups that they would come up against.

The Stonycreek Operations Group is primarily composed of men and women that were drawn from the CIA and Special Warfare Operations community whom felt that politicians and oppressive bureaucracy that had limited their effectiveness in protecting and defending the United States and its citizens over the years. Stonycreek operatives operate out in the open, using the old adage that it is best to simply hide in plain sight. The inner circle of personnel are located throughout the Executive Branch of government, and their job is to help hide the various operations that are being carried out by the Stonycreek Operations Group by running interference whenever someone starts asking questions.

The Stonycreek Operations Group has a three tier leadership hierarchy, at the top is the Triumvirate. The three men who were tasked with setting up an operations group that would from its very creation expected to operate in full black environment. These three men were longtime members of the governmental federal bureaucracy whom had exceptional job security, and it was felt that they would be able to weather any changes of Presidential administration from one party to the next. These three men would then find and recruit what would be termed The Outer Circle, men and women throughout the executive branch who would be able to provide any possible cover that could be created for Stonycreek Operatives.

The Triumvirate took their cues from the US Marshal Service Witness Protection Program, and created a heavily compartmentalized operation with only the members of the Triumvirate knowing the full extent of the entire Stonycreek Operations Group, and members of the Outer Circle only know that when an operative is in trouble and someone has given them one of a preset of codes or cover identities that they are to fall back on one of a series of pre-set cover stories. It has been due to this that the operations group has been able to remain under the radar for nearly ten years.

The Triumvirate also created the Inner Circle, a group of handlers and specialists whom operate the Tactical Operations Command Centre that monitors the network of 'decommissioned' satellites and computers that allow field operatives to stay ahead of terrorists, to persecute the war on terror without cause or prejudice with no holds barred. While the members of the Inner Circle do not know whom is in the Outer Circle by their real names, they do know them by a codename and their position within the government so they can know WHO to call to make problems go away.

Fortunately, the Stonycreek Operations Group has not had to deal with anyone catching on to their existence and their failsafe plans that would be implemented if they ever where compromised was quiet simple. The group would disperse and fade back into the background of the federal government operations, just as if they had never existed. The Stonycreek Operations Group has created a network of bank accounts, that would be used to fund their operations and see to the survivors of any personnel whom would be killed or injured during the performance of their duties.

The Stonycreek Operations Group takes its name from the Stonycreek Township, the location of the field where Flight United 93 crashed on 11 September 2001.

[HorseSoldier]

I'd guess that any super-black side SOF unit doing CT missions would recruit heavily from, and consequently emulate, the super cool kids in JSOC.

Depending on the size of the organization you're thinking about, it sounds like you might be looking at something like:

1) Assault element -- maybe based on four man assault teams, and probably the least compartmentalized, as for any target requiring multiple teams you'd have to have guys training together. If the overall organization is large enough maybe they compartmentalize at a 12 or 16 man troop or platoon (or some non-CAG/SEAL term).

2) Targeting element -- The HUMINT side of intel and RSTA, or maybe both human assets and the more technical guys both fall under this. Develop targets for the Assault guys, and/or cruise missiles/JDAMs/etc. Probably work in smaller groups, and possibly equipped to take direct action against a sufficiently time sensitive HVT if need be.

3) Technical Resources element -- The guys on loan from the NSA or whatever who do SIGINT, point all of the ECHELON system at one single bad guy's cell phone and email accounts, etc.

4) Support element -- The supply (including cool Q Workshop type stuff) guys, dedicated medical and commo assets, and whatever administrative/enabling slice the organization needs. (Again, whether this is a couple guys who wear 20 different hats apiece or a room full of bureaucrats depends on how large you envision the organization being.)

Is the organization big enough that you see them owning their own big ticket items like black helicopters, C-17s, and small/fast naval assets, etc., or would that stuff be borrowed/commandeered from other agencies if/when needed If there's major equipment like that under the same umbrella, the support element might be significantly more elaborate.

[Ronin]

Ok, I think this is very cool Nate. Makes me think of "The Campus" from Tom Clancys Jack Ryan/John Clark verse, or Stony Man (Mack Bolan verse). Question is this an outsourced CIA, SAD group. Or something completely separate Another thought, (Im playing devils advocate here, because I do love the idea.) would this organization be a little redundant being that its basically just another SAD team/group

[natehale1971]

The idea for this group, was to fight the Terorists on the same level... ie, playing by the same rules. in other words, there are no rules. the Stonycreek Operations Group has access to pretty much anything they need due to the Out Circle network that goes throughout the Executive Branch.

They need a helicopter, they can get it with dummied up papers that look official. They need assault team, they can get access to a Delta or SEAL team. The Stonycreek Operations Group are hiding in plain sight, they all have the security clearences that allows them to move about the burecracy without it slowing them down.

This is what makes Stonycreek so effective. They aren't restrained by the same kind of red tape that the CIA is.. There are books about how the CIA has become less effective thanks to the burecrats who spend all their time covering their own asses and not concentrating on the problems that could get Americans killed by the bad guys.

Stonycreek recruits heavily from the special ops and intelligence communities, but that's not the only places they get their people. they get Computer Hackers and other unsavory types as well.

The original write up for Stonycreek had them absorbing the network of a former mafia family... whose materiarch was killed in 9-11. the head of the network had been in the process of getting the family to go legit, and when his wife and children were killed when their flight had been hijacked and flown into the World Trade Centre... well, let's just say he used his connections to offer his services DIRECTLY to the President when he visited Ground Zero.

I'm thinking of the Giovanni Crime Family and its network being part of the cover for Stonycreek... with the head of the crime family being one of the members of the Triumverant. and the fact that the new administration was not as willing to work with an organization that had it's start in organized crime. Even after they had done everything they promised (namely having gone completely legit, and works almost entirely for the government providing cover for counter-terrorism ops all over the country and europe).

[Ronin]

Its sounds very cool. I like it Nate.

[Ronin]

Some thoughts for you on your Stony Creek operations. Helicopter support is no problem. Just needs to be registered to a front corporation. The CIA uses Delaware frequently as a place to register these aircraft/corporations. Because of the lenient incorporation laws of that state.
As the the Ranger or SEAL team. That might have been possible in the early 80's when Seal team 6, was a small basically platoon sized entity. Now a days, Delta, and any of the SEAL teams are brigade sized monsters. That dont have the rapid deployment capabilities that the original SEAL team 6 did. (A fact that Richard Marcinko likes to point out, as to why he kept the original team small.) You would be better off with in house operators. Doing like the SAD and recruiting from JSOC and other places. (SAS, GSG9, Spenatz, GROM, Sayeret Matkal, and etc)
I do like the Mafia angle. Gives, instant deniability.

[natehale1971]

Thank you for the help HorseSoldier...

The Targeting Element, Technical Resources Element and Support Element would all be part of the Inner Circle who operate the Tactical Operations Centre.

The Human Intelligence part of the Targeting Elment would be handlers right The ones who control the actions of their assets that are out in the field gathering data right

The Hackers would fall under the Technical Resources element. hackers who would be recruited would have been 'blackhat' types who were given a choice of working for Stonycreek, or end up UNDER the prison with the cover story of having been child rapists instead of hackers.

The Stonycreek Operations Group uses the various legal (and illegal) assets of the Giovanni Crime Family much like James Bond uses Universal Exports. The Giovanni Crime Family sets up safe houses and the like all over the place for Stonycreek.

The Assault Element of Stonycreek are all former Delta, SEAL, US Army Rangers and some havbe been drawn from British SAS & SBS. Stonycreek hides their assault element as the Stonycreek Private Military Company that was organized like CAG/Delta Force & the British SAS.

The Stonycreek Private Military Contractor Company has three squadrons, each squadron has three direct action troops and a recon troop. Each troop is composed of four to six teams. Each team has four to six people on them.

If their own assault element can't handle the job (or Stonycreek is afraid that their operations could get press) they pass on the job to Delta Force or the SEALs. Usually getting the Outer Circle to create a cover operation that will allow the Federal Government to get some good press.

[natehale1971]

Some thoughts for you on your Stony Creek operations. Helicopter support is no problem. Just needs to be registered to a front corporation. The CIA uses Delaware frequently as a place to register these aircraft/corporations. Because of the lenient incorporation laws of that state.
As the the Ranger or SEAL team. That might have been possible in the early 80's when Seal team 6, was a small basically platoon sized entity. Now a days, Delta, and any of the SEAL teams are brigade sized monsters. That dont have the rapid deployment capabilities that the original SEAL team 6 did. (A fact that Richard Marcinko likes to point out, as to why he kept the original team small.) You would be better off with in house operators. Doing like the SAD and recruiting from JSOC and other places. (SAS, GSG9, Spenatz, GROM, Sayeret Matkal, and etc)
I do like the Mafia angle. Gives, instant deniability.

Stonycreek has their assets spread out... namely keeping their assets hidden in plain sight. They keep aircraft assets hidden as a private professional medevac company that operates globally. Namely providing private jets and helicopters that have been turned into mobile medical centres. using the fact that they are providing medevacs to topnotch medical centres all around the world.

the Stonycreek PMC would be the most 'visible' part of the Stonycreek Operations Group. namely their way of hiding the actions of the inner circle and assault element.

[rcaf_777]

The support element would logical have the following elements

Supply - Procurment through legal or other means

Research and Devolpment - Q Branch

Adminstration - Personel Service

Food Services - We all have to eat

Finance - Management of Funds however they come in, this includes a Forensic Accounting Team

Operations Research - also referred to as decision science, or management science

Transportation - Land, Sea and Air

Maintenance - Fixing Stuff

Communications - Not field Support but those persons who handle more long range stuff between base and teams

Liaison Staff

Legal - We all need a lawyer now and then

[HorseSoldier]

On the HUMINT guys, I think you'd want a couple capabilities for this sort of organization.

First, it seems to me there is a need to have go-anywhere capability in permissive or denied environments and set up an operation on the fly. You can probably piggyback CIA, NSA, military and other government agencies to an extent, but if the organization is going to be sending taskers to local CIA offices requesting very specific information there's going to be a security issue sooner or later.

Maybe some personnel could be placed high up in something approximating a CIA internal affairs/evaluation unit. Terrorist X pops up on radar in Jakarta and hot on his heels are the evaluators who roll in and have personnel and their assets jumping through hoops on a readiness exercise.

The other HUMINT capability is guys who can do confirmation on targets up close, though this could be a mission for the Recon Troops mentioned.

The forensic accounting team is a cool idea. Probably a lot of potential there for recruiting from FBI, DEA, Marshalls, etc. and putting law enforcement skills and techniques into play as well.

[Eddie]

The other HUMINT capability is guys who can do confirmation on targets up close, though this could be a mission for the Recon Troops mentioned.

My professional recommendation is to outsource this particular function. The CTR (close target reconnaissance) community is pretty small and characterized by guys who pay attention to detail, meaning that in some of the basic qualifying training for this type of operation, guys are going to meet each other then get real curious when that guy Steve from RRC who was at 15 years time in service just disappeared and didn't retire.

It'll start the rumor mill and draw attention to a group that doesn't want attention.

Besides, these guys are used to getting a targeting packet, actioning it, then reporting to the ether and not knowing where the report is actually being directed. And they have all of the resources and funding codes in place.

I would see the HUMINT function of this group as developing the operational picture once the organization is on the ground through tactical questioning and other collection methods.

The forensic accounting team is a cool idea. Probably a lot of potential there for recruiting from FBI, DEA, Marshalls, etc. and putting law enforcement skills and techniques into play as well.

And not without precedent. Law Enforcement Professionals have deployed as part of Brigades for at least five years now to advise Brigade Combat Teams on tactical site exploitation and evidence handling techniques, amongst other things. FBI's HRT has deployed personnel as part of Special Operations Task Forces for a while as well.

Who's to say that these practices weren't brought about by some field grade who rotated out of this group and went back to conventional military units (as in openly operating, special operations or not)

Which brings about the topics of posse comitatus and the moral implications of this entire line of thought, is violating the Constitution in service of the nation acceptable

First, posse comitatus. It's almost always an afterthought in literature, movies, video and role-playing games. Especially when it supports a good story (which is admittedly the purpose of all of the above). However, in character motivation and development...how far would these arguably patriotic people push their zone of compliance At what point does this military unit cease lawful operations and become the terrorists that they are actioning against Where are the external checks and balances on the targeting process Frex, IRL in Iraq as early as 2008 with the adoption of the SOFA agreement after the Surge, even SOF and CIA elements couldn't action targets without an approved Iraqi-court warrant unless said target was literally in the act of a crime.

Here in the US, at Fort Stewart, GA, when planning something as mundane as our hurricane disaster relief plans in May, we were hamstrung to only being able to send medics and rescue personnel to locations on Fort Stewart and Hunter Army Airfield. We couldn't go outside the gate to direct traffic or render medical aid, legally, without a federal disaster declaration by the president.

I understand that this idea is conceived to be a unit that works outside the law of the land for the land. I understand the dramatic and entertainment aspects and implications of this group. And I completely understand and agree with one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the motivation for this unit's creation and use.

During the Twilight War (admittedly updated to the new millenium in your game world from other threads), when the economies of money and warfighting capabilities are being stretched to the breaking points and beyond; the threat of world war is building to or has passed beyond the point of no return; the foundations of the US are starting to break into the fractured entities of CIVGOV and MILGOV; I just don't see the pressing danger that necessitates such a draconian and blatantly illegal recourse such as this.

Which in and of itself could bring great interpersonal conflict to a character assigned to this unit if you chose to play him/her...all of the above is just food for thought.

[ArmySGT.]

Watch the movie "Swordfish".

John Travolta's character is the head of such a group.

[natehale1971]

Yup.. i saw Swordfish a while back and was a little upset that someone had taken my idea and ran with it.

The men and women who are part of Stonycreek are all dedicated to the United States and it's constituion... The idea behind the creation of this group was to have a group that puts the welfare of the US and it's citizens ahead of their own asses. If you take the time to read the expose books tha have been coming out about the CIA you'll see that the biggest thing keeping the CIA and FBI from doing their jobs at the highest level of competency comes from the unelected and unaccountable burecrats who are more worried about covering their own asses.

Are these people violating the consitution No, they aren't. They are all private citizens of this country and are putting their lives on the line, knowing that they will be put into positions that could see them having to ask themselves the question... "Is what I'm Doing Right or wrong"

The Stonycreek Operations Group would have people who are both team players, and lone wolves... People who are willing to take chances and to live up to being responsible for those choices that they've made.

Stonycreek's hiding in plain sight approach has members of the operations group (the Outer Ciricle) who are located all throughout the bureacacy that has turned the Federal Government into a cluster you know what that has made it next to impossible for anything to get done. And in all honsety, most of what that bureacracy does now is not part of the Consitutional powers and authority that the Founding Fathers had envisionsed when they got together and wrote the founding documents of our Republic.

Now Stonycreeks PMC are not active duty US Armed Forces personnel and are not under the "posse comitatus"... and believe it or now, there are ways around it to get special warfare operators to work counter terrorism ops that will not voilate posse comitatus. To many times military personnel have been sworn in as federal law enforcement so they can do one of the jobs that the Federal Government was given... the defense of citizens of this country from foreign attack.

When Stonycreek has discovered something they can't deal with, they 'pass it along' to someone who can deal with it.

Such as... let's say something along the lines of the PLA's "Unrestricted Warfare" plans actually getting carried out, and there is a massive network of terror cells all acorss the country... and Stonycreek doesn't have the resources to go after all of them. Hell... the US federal law enforcement and armed forces wouldn't be able to coorinate the kind of round up operation that would be necessary to get them all at one time.

Stonycreek is more or less a group that are dedicated to do the right thing, no matter the cost to themselves. They go after threats to the country and it's citizens, while they aren't going to do the kind of things that you saw in "Swordfish" to fund their operations... they operate in the shadows shining the light of truth on the naughty things they've found.

Let's say Stonycreek discovers a network of so-called 'charities' that are funding the operations a terrorist network... they would gather evidence proving this, even if it means using a team of hackers to get that data illegally. Now they're not going to turn all that over to the legal system... No, they turn it over to the Media. That way everyone can see the things they've found, and the citizens can demand that the badguys get punished.

Now let's say that Stonycreek has uncovered not only the funding of a terrorist network, but they discover that the terror network is about to unleash unholy hell... They would then take direct action by eliminating the cell that is about to kill innocents. But they would do it in such a way that it looks as if someone else took them out.

Such as a coordinated assault on a major international airport... Stonycreek would use the Out Ciricle or some other kind of contact to tell TSA that the attack is coming. That there are confidential informants and unercover agents who are either in the cell, or working against the cell. After the TSA has taken the credit for stopping the attack, the Stonycreek operators who helped show what was coming, are able to fade away.

My problem is the fact that i don't know how an operations group would be set up... it's why i had thought of Stonycreek piggybacking on exitsting organizations. Using those existing organizations to provide a cover for their operations, and a plausable deniablity.

Stonycreek would be a group that deals with threats to the US Consitution and the American people, both foreign and domestic. They put that above everything else they are doing. If they discover something happening within the organizations they are piggybacking on, they would reveal it to the media... "Operation Fast and Furious" has been in the media alot. That would be something that Stonycreek would definately see as a threat to the US and it's people, and would take what ever means needed to stop it.

I like the idea of Stonycreek having members of the Outer Circle as part of the various internal affairs offices of the agencies they've inflitrated.

That would work amazingly well for them to provide cover for Stonycreek, and allow them to 'pass along' sensitive information to people in positions of power that can deal with problems that are just too big for Stonycreek to deal with.

[natehale1971]

Oh... i forgot to add.

Stonycreek isn't something i was creating exactly for a Twilight 2000 setting. It's the group that PCs would be working for during the Flashpoint phase of "World War IV: A World in Flames". A game setting that allows the players and games master set the type of world in conflict they want.

Flashpoint (flashpoints, small operations dealing with threats, the world before 9-11)
Brushfire (several brushfire wars happening, such as Iraq and Afghanistan)
Firestorm (the world is at war, the twilight war seneiro)

[natehale1971]

Has anyone else read this book I found it in PDF, from what i can find out... the Naval Academy has this book on the list that it's got cadets reading.

Unrestricted Warfare (超限战, literally "warfare beyond bounds") is a book on military strategy written in 1999 by two Senior Colonels in the People's Liberation Army, Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui. Its primary concern is how a nation such as China can defeat a technologically superior opponent (such as the United States) through a variety of means. Rather than focusing on direct military confrontation, this book instead examines a variety of other means. Such means include using International Law (see Lawfare) and a variety of economic means to place one's opponent in a bad position and circumvent the need for direct military action.