Arrangements at the Front

[Webstral]

I had an evil thought tonight. The war in Europe in 1999 is characterized by long-distance penetration raids. Obviously, the formations nearest the enemy bear the brunt of this. Obviously, its impossible for the number of troops remaining to control the whole front. The formations nearest the front would be expected to mount patrols into the areas they couldnt control directly. This would suck for them. What if some of the units at the forward edge of the NATO or Pact occupation zone in Central Europe strike an arrangement with their counterparts on the other side. Say, for example, the 476th Motor Rifle Division foresaw that there would be no need to patrol a given area during a specified time on a specified date. If enemy raiders penetrated this area and tore up friendly units in the rear well, those sorts of things happen when the units at the forward edge of the occupation zone dont get enough supply or reinforcement and find themselves obliged to make arrangements with the enemy across the way so that the higher-ups in their safe rear area command posts can feel good that the war is being prosecuted without us poor s.o.b.s who got unlucky enough to be stuck at the front all getting killed for no good reason at all.

[Raellus]

I had an evil thought tonight. The war in Europe in 1999 is characterized by long-distance penetration raids. Obviously, the formations nearest the enemy bear the brunt of this. Obviously, its impossible for the number of troops remaining to control the whole front. The formations nearest the front would be expected to mount patrols into the areas they couldnt control directly. This would suck for them. What if some of the units at the forward edge of the NATO or Pact occupation zone in Central Europe strike an arrangement with their counterparts on the other side. Say, for example, the 476th Motor Rifle Division foresaw that there would be no need to patrol a given area during a specified time on a specified date. If enemy raiders penetrated this area and tore up friendly units in the rear well, those sorts of things happen when the units at the forward edge of the occupation zone dont get enough supply or reinforcement and find themselves obliged to make arrangements with the enemy across the way so that the higher-ups in their safe rear area command posts can feel good that the war is being prosecuted without us poor s.o.b.s who got unlucky enough to be stuck at the front all getting killed for no good reason at all.

Absolutely. This sort of thing happens from time to time in war.

This sort of small unit, impromptu front-line diplomacy is an aspect of the T2K game that most games seem to neglect. I know that most PCs like the combat part of T2K, but it seems that in the T2KU of '99 and 2000, a lot of folks would do just about anything they could to avoid taking casualties, up to and including talking to the enemy.

In a brillant T2K PbP I played in a few years back (Stalemate War on RPGnet), a company-sized unit of the 5th ID was surrounded in a town outside Kalisz (Blazki, I think) by elements of a Soviet MR regiment. They both took a lot of casualties in the battle for the city. The American company commander contacted the Soviets (or vice-versa) to arrange the "escape" of the American unit. Neither side wanted to lose more men KIA/WIA, so the Soviet commander agreed to give the Americans a couple of trucks and look the other way during a two-hour window. That way, he looked good for taking the town without any more casualties and the Americans avoided fighting to the last man or ending up as POWs. I though the way the GM set this scenario up was pretty genius.

[Adm.Lee]

I read in Marlantes' book about the arrangements one of Rommel's recon units made with the British recon regiments. Since the desert is really, really dark after sunset, both sides shut down at that time, for fear of getting very lost. They arranged an informal agreement to stop patrolling at 5pm. That then grew into nightly radio calls to let the other side know if one of their patrols was lost in the desert, or had been picked up during the day, and so on.

[Graebarde]

Since the desert is really, really dark after sunset, both sides shut down at that time, for fear of getting very lost.

First it is not really really dark in the desert at night unless it is overcast. The billlions and billions of stars supply an amazing about of illumination...
(I lived and worked in the desert at least fifty miles from ground lights.. the heavens are beautiful when uncluttered by ground wash or smog)

but I CAN understand the disorientation if you don't know how to read the stars. It's like being at sea.. a sea of sand in the case of north Africa.

[Nowhere Man 1966]

First it is not really really dark in the desert at night unless it is overcast. The billlions and billions of stars supply an amazing about of illumination...
(I lived and worked in the desert at least fifty miles from ground lights.. the heavens are beautiful when uncluttered by ground wash or smog)

but I CAN understand the disorientation if you don't know how to read the stars. It's like being at sea.. a sea of sand in the case of north Africa.

Yeah, my father remembers how bright the sky was with all the stars and Mily Way when he was on a ship going across the Pacific on his way to Korea in the mid-1950's. I also talked to a fellow ham radio operator who served aboard the USS Melvin in World War II. The destroyer did get hit by a torpedo from a Japanese sub and they lost 256 shipmates at one time. That story was hard for him to tell, but he also remember, like my father, how bright the stars were.

[Raellus]

First it is not really really dark in the desert at night unless it is overcast. The billlions and billions of stars supply an amazing about of illumination...
(I lived and worked in the desert at least fifty miles from ground lights.. the heavens are beautiful when uncluttered by ground wash or smog).

I live in the desert about 15 miles north of Tucson. When the moon is full, I can go for a walk in the wild without using/needing a flashlight. When the moon is waning, though, this is not possible. With a new moon, it's just way too dark. The stars are gorgeous, but they don't provide enough light to do anything by.

[Graebarde]

I live in the desert about 15 miles north of Tucson. When the moon is full, I can go for a walk in the wild without using/needing a flashlight. When the moon is waning, though, this is not possible. With a new moon, it's just way too dark. The stars are gorgeous, but they don't provide enough light to do anything by.

Well I could detect burros, wild horses, and coyotes sneaking around in the dark by starlight once the eyes got adjusted to the dark. No, I didn't go creeping around out there in starlight only.. good way to get poked. FB

[Legbreaker]

It depends on the individual. For me, starlight alone is more than enough light, but then I do have a UV sensitivity and need to wear sunglasses outside or suffer headaches.

[Webstral]

I was surprised to find that I could drive a track in a march column on a dirt road with only 2% illumination without night vision. I hated the night vision device, because the headband got crushed into my skull under the tight-fitting CVC helmet and the greenness gave me a headache. However, I discovered later that I cannot see well enough to shoot using iron sights in 15% illumination. Guess how that went. Fortunately, it was training and so not an especially expensive lesson.

Low illumination would be an excellent excuse for letting enemy raiders pass unmolested. One could almost predict when the enemy would make his move.

Though I'm supposed to be working on a new piece for Thunder Empire, I've been moonlighting (pun intended) on something truly evil. I'm fleshing out an idea for a megapunk gang that takes over the southeastern portion of New Hampshire. The Zombies are very bad news. They spend the daylight hours in basements and come out only at night. They use cosmetics and tattooing to give themselves an undead aspect. They engage in ritual cannibalism. They conduct raids for captives and booty only under very low illumination conditions. They keep themselves well-stocked with combat drugs. They engage in hand-to-hand combat with short spears, tomahawks, and knives. They are probably the best night actions light infantry in New England. They are able to operate this way because they have struck an unholy alliance with another megapunk gang who handles the daylight hours and the slave labor. My own creation disturbs me, but I feel the need to give them (un)life.

[Targan]

For me, starlight alone is more than enough light, but then I do have a UV sensitivity and need to wear sunglasses outside or suffer headaches.

Yeah, I can relate. Pale blue eyes, great for night ops but bright sunlight is difficult for me to deal with without sunglasses.

[HorseSoldier]

I was surprised to find that I could drive a track in a march column on a dirt road with only 2% illumination without night vision. I hated the night vision device, because the headband got crushed into my skull under the tight-fitting CVC helmet and the greenness gave me a headache. However, I discovered later that I cannot see well enough to shoot using iron sights in 15% illumination. Guess how that went. Fortunately, it was training and so not an especially expensive lesson.

I hate driving under NODS, be they goggles or things like the driver's night sight on the A-Zero Bradleys (which turns the whole world into a neon green fish bowl). Back when I was a Brad driver I used to just pop the hatch a bit and drive by ambient light when I could get away with it.

Ditto on the shooting at night, also -- iron sights even with the big aperture on the M16 sights -- pretty much a noisemaker except at point blank range when body position and point shooting comes into play, for me. Performance gets better with a CCO/EOTech or an ACOG where I can actually see a sight picture.

[rcaf_777]

In Canada you were lucking if you had a pair of NODS per infantry section, I never use them as a grunt unless I was maning an OP or Crew Served Weapons, I don't think any drivers for any vehciles had them, the Army had M113 or AVGP and I don't they had night sights for the driver or crew, Leapord I might have had something but I was no tanker

[Legbreaker]

In my time I saw a grand total of one pair. They were in the hands of an M113 Lieutenant and on the edge of completely worn out.
Only saw one rifle mounted night sight as well. Shame the mount (which replaced the slide cover on the SLR) prevented the breach block from moving...

[Fusilier]

In Canada you were lucking if you had a pair of NODS per infantry section, I never use them as a grunt unless I was maning an OP or Crew Served Weapons, I don't think any drivers for any vehciles had them, the Army had M113 or AVGP and I don't they had night sights for the driver or crew, Leapord I might have had something but I was no tanker

Depends on the unit and it's current tasking really, so you were probably just unlucky. One year a reg or even reserve unit might have enough for every man or two, and the next year those sets might be allotted to another unit prepping for deployment or whatever.

[Graebarde]

NODS I was OLD army where we 'saw' the OLD mod zero 'starlight' scope, which you could detect something some time, but compared to the new stuff were a genuine POS. FB