T-90 vs Abrams

[Legbreaker]

The T-90 versus the M1 Abrams from the Russian perspective.

I think this probably warrants a thread all of it's own - I can see a LOT of discussion coming....

[pmulcahy11b]

The T-90 is NOT a better tank than the Abrams, or the Challenger, or even the Leclerc or M60-120 or possibly the Ariete. But is has one big advantage over those tanks -- it's still a good, modern tank and it's a lot cheaper than almost any of the other tanks in its class (or at least, the Russians will undercut just about anyone's price).

[Matt Wiser]

The T-90 is just an upgraded T-72, nothing more. The Russian claim is nothing but contractor hyperbole, methinks.

[Panther Al]

Its an interesting vid: They made a few valid points: Yes, it didn't throw a track on the same spot that the M1 did during that show, and yes, it does have a passive ATGM defense system that we don't. I'll also grant its rough terrain abilities are better as well. Lighter Absolutely. But the rest of it


*hehs*

[dragoon500ly]

Oh Dear! This video just goes to show that the Russians are the master of today's battlefield and all of us poor Abrams crewmen just might as well pull over and surrender to the superior vehicle.

B*****T!!!!!

Kinda reminds me of the "Invincible Heroic People's Red Army Going Up Against the Helpless Workers Oppressed By NATO Scum Sucking Villains" pieces that you would pick up on certain TV stations during the Cold War.

[Legbreaker]

So lets hear some good things about the T-90...

[Panther Al]

Its small, cheap, and doesn't suck gas like there is no tomorrow. Probably has the ruggedness of all soviet designs, as well as the simplicity of maintenance.

Other than that, nothing for ya.

Its basically a very well done upgrade of the T72 - which means in the end, all it is is a T72 with a few extra bells and whistles.

[Targan]

So lets hear some good things about the T-90...

There are none anywhere near my house.

[Schone23666]

And hopefully it'll display the same "jack in the box" effect if it takes a shot in the turret ring like the T72

[Webstral]

Until theres a war involving the T-90, its going to be hard to say much about the reality of the T-90 versus expectations. The M1 has the advantage of having been put through its paces under certain circumstances. While Im inclined to think that we Americans need to be very wary of hubris (instead of congratulating ourselves on having such wonderful equipment), the M1 has done pretty well so far. How well the M1 might perform against a numerous foe with up-to-date equipment and under conditions of enemy air superiority (thus exposing the Achilles heel of fuel consumption) is another matter entirely. We may never find out. Similarly, we may never find out what the real capabilities of the T-90 are.

[Schone23666]

Until theres a war involving the T-90, its going to be hard to say much about the reality of the T-90 versus expectations. The M1 has the advantage of having been put through its paces under certain circumstances. While Im inclined to think that we Americans need to be very wary of hubris (instead of congratulating ourselves on having such wonderful equipment), the M1 has done pretty well so far. How well the M1 might perform against a numerous foe with up-to-date equipment and under conditions of enemy air superiority (thus exposing the Achilles heel of fuel consumption) is another matter entirely. We may never find out. Similarly, we may never find out what the real capabilities of the T-90 are.

I think you summed it up pretty well Webstral.

With that said....I'd prefer to see one of these T-90's in the hand of someone other than the Russians (which I'm sure won't be long) and have some degree of trustworthiness (small detail, lol) who could evaluate it and give a more impartial report on it's pros and cons. Of course, preferably someone who also doesn't hold a grudge against the West...

[pmulcahy11b]

That is one thing -- the last time the US faced any decent air opposition against our ground forces was the Korean War.

[RN7]

Is it better than the Abrams No, at least not the later model Abrams (M1A1/A2/A2 SEP) which are nearly 20 tons heavier.

The Russians built it as a compromise as they (back in the 1990's) couldn't afford to build two tanks at the same time; the inferior but cheap T-72B and the superior but expensive T-80U.

The T-90 is a modernised T-72 with some features of the T-80 such as its better fire control system. The T-90 used the same gun as the T-72 but has a new engine, much better layered composite and reactive armour and some new gadgets; new thermal sights, a laser warning reciever, an anti-tank missile jamming systems and some other minor features. The latest T-90MS model has the latest type of Russian composite and reactive armour, a redesigned turret and new gun, and improved targeting, navigation and communication gear.

The Russians think its their best protected tank and it performed better in Chechnya than the T-72 and earlier T-80's (without Arena). Some Indian models have been heavily customised. The T-90M Bhishima reportably has an advanced armour composition welded into the turrets of its T-90's which preformed very well in testing against different types of ammunition even without Russian built in reactive armour.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Kinda reminds me of the "Invincible Heroic People's Red Army Going Up Against the Helpless Workers Oppressed By NATO Scum Sucking Villains" pieces that you would pick up on certain TV stations during the Cold War.

You mean CBS

[raketenjagdpanzer]

So lets hear some good things about the T-90...

I don't have to crew one