T-90 vs Abrams

[James1978]

And has the Air Force really learned the lesson about CAS I'm old enough to remember when the A-10 came into service...and how hard the Air Force pushed for it to go straight to the Air National Guard/Air Reserve. The Warthog is an effective CAS, arguably one of the best designs...but it just is not as sexy as an F-15/F-16/F-22.

You do realize that was at a time when there was a general push to have the active duty component and reserve component using the same equipment. Guard/Reserve units got F-16s pretty quickly too.

[James1978]

What I want to know though, is where are the Army A-10's According to the Law, no sh*t, the law, under House Resolution 4739 the Air Force is required to give up one A10 to the Army for each OV1 that the Army retired.

.....................................

Thats the thing: Technically, the Air Force is breaking the law by not turning over the aircraft, and all ancillary equipment and personnel. The law was passed a long time ago, the Air Force is ignoring it, and the Army isn't pushing the issue for some reason. There was a pretty good study done on incorporating A-10's into Army Aviation - including Warrant Officer Pilots, something that was felt would have been very popular.

But are they breaking the law H.R. 4739 was passed during the 101st Congress (1989-1990). That was twenty years ago and before Desert Storm. What one Congress decrees, the next one can repeal. My guess is that a subsequent Congress repealed that particular provision, probably not long after Desert Storm

[dragoon500ly]

You do realize that was at a time when there was a general push to have the active duty component and reserve component using the same equipment. Guard/Reserve units got F-16s pretty quickly too.

And the ANG/AR continued to fly F-4/A-7s until when The F-16s went to the ANG units with the NORAD mission first and then started to replace F-4s....but some ANG units deployed to PG with F-4s at least in the Wild Weasel and recon roles.

[Panther Al]

Not wanting to front the money and other resources required to maintain fixed-wing combat aviation assets and related skill base

- C.

Wouldn't be fronting that as they get it all from the Air Force, but yes, finding the money to continue funding might be where the issue is.

Besides, it makes for a handy stick to use on the Chair Farce. "Keep the A10's flying, else we take them from you and we start having armed fixed wing airplanes again." Which is something the AF really really doesn't want to see.

[Panther Al]

honestly T-90 vs Abrams my answer is...

their about equal one on one it would come down to the who's crew is better.

but since your all bringing other variables into this:
a good FO could turn either into slag in 125 seconds counting for TOF and an adjustment.

And then another 10 minutes to figure out which side they are supposed to be shooting at... after the fact.

After all, Short is the only way Arty knows how to shoot.

[Legbreaker]

Which is something the AF really really doesn't want to see.

Why exactly is that

[ArmySGT.]

Why exactly is that

They lose a portion of their budget to the Army. This would relegate them to
Air Superiority (Fighters ! Their favorite!)
Strategic Bombing
Air Interdiction
Global Air cargo movement.
Strategic Missile Wings.

Once the Army got the A-10s, then the Army would take the AC-130s and Combat Talons, most probably a larger slice of Theater air cargo movement.

This would shove the Air Force almost completely out of the Special Operations Role (BIG budget money) and the Air Force would take a back seat in every operation supporting either the Army or the Navy.

They would see their role in anything but a full blown war with an adversary of like technical capability as just truck drivers.

[Legbreaker]

In other words, it makes a lot of sense for the A-10's etc to be transfered.
Also, having the ground support aircraft actually controlled by the ground forces is likely to save a lot of time, money and ultimately probably lives too.

Goes to show just how messy things can get in a massive organisation like the US government, or even just the military arms of it. There's a lot to be said for a single controlling entity responsible for rationalising not just the military but the entire government, without having to answer to voters, special interest groups and any other influences outside saving money, people, and minimising bureaucracy. Keep politics out of it and work on a logical and efficiency basis.

[ArmySGT.]

In other words, it makes a lot of sense for the A-10's etc to be transfered.
Also, having the ground support aircraft actually controlled by the ground forces is likely to save a lot of time, money and ultimately probably lives too.

Goes to show just how messy things can get in a massive organisation like the US government, or even just the military arms of it. There's a lot to be said for a single controlling entity responsible for rationalising not just the military but the entire government, without having to answer to voters, special interest groups and any other influences outside saving money, people, and minimising bureaucracy. Keep politics out of it and work on a logical and efficiency basis.

Absolutely makes sense. That the Army should own all CAS and Theater Transport. Will they change doctrine Doubtful. Then again the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs should always be Army too in my opinion. We had an Admiral overseeing two ground wars.

I don't call a plumber for tax advice and I think an Admiral has no business running a war in a land locked country.

I have been wrong before, though.

[Legbreaker]

I believe I owe everybody a sincere appology.
I indicated that the US government should be run using common sense and logic. What the HELL was I thinking!!! :O

[ArmySGT.]

That's why they call it a Republic, run on democratic principles.

[Legbreaker]

That's why they call it a Republic, run on democratic principles.

Principles perhaps. Practise, not so much.

[ArmySGT.]

Principles perhaps. Practise, not so much.

However, there you are with Us; everywhere we go.

How about those Principles again

[Webstral]

There's a lot to be said for a single controlling entity responsible for rationalising not just the military but the entire government, without having to answer to voters, special interest groups and any other influences outside saving money, people, and minimising bureaucracy. Keep politics out of it and work on a logical and efficiency basis.

Like fascism or communism. Is that the way you see Australia going Certainly I'm not interested in having a power with no accountability to voters deciding anything. We have enough problems with government agencies running amok without eliminating any and every form accountability. We fought a war specifically to free ourselves from a government in which the citizenry had no voice. Still, our Australian cousins have to form the government that best serves your interests.

[schnickelfritz]

On the subject of the T-90 and related high performance Russian armor, my concern would be whether they could field anywhere near enough of them to make a difference versus the current Western tanks in a real shooting war.

And are the T-80 and T-90 as dangerous to the crews as the T-72 is

The Mi-28 and Ka-50 are fearsome machines, as are the latest Russki jets, but their problem is one of resources. They've come up with some veicles and systems that may work well enough when it starts, but will there again, be enough to make a difference Will there be enough of the Mil-28 and Ka-50 to survive all of the Stingers and such My guess is no.

I seem to remember an issue of the old International Combat Arms magazine in the 80's that was showing a variety of anti-helo aircraft the US was looking at...the Piper Enforcer and Cavalier Mustang 2 included. I believe that the thought that these would be used sort of as the Skyraider was in 'Nam, and sort of to hunt and shoot down Pact helicopters.

I'll tell you this...I think Western gear is generally good enough to fight the Pact to a stalemate in Europe, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to see the Tanguska SPAA at anytime from inside anything airborne. Ever.

-Dave