T-90 vs Abrams

[Legbreaker]

Our current government will be lucky to last their current term. They are polling around 30% support which is absolutely ABYSMAL!
They lied through their teeth about a number of key issues during the last election campaign and have back flipped on some very serious issues. Some people (30%) do still support them for various reasons, however...

Globally almost all economies are struggling, or in few cases (not pointing the finger at anyone here Greece) are near as dammit bankrupt. What I'd like to see, but sure as hell will never happen, is some competent financial administrators brought in to sort out the mess, pay off debts and generally streamline governmental processes, without being subject to removal by politically driven mechanisms. A period of 12-36 months should be enough to get most countries back on track before handing back to the politicians (to screw up again).

But, none of that is EVER going to happen while humans remain, well, human.

[Targan]

Like fascism or communism. Is that the way you see Australia going? Certainly I'm not interested in having a power with no accountability to voters deciding anything. We have enough problems with government agencies running amok without eliminating any and every form accountability. We fought a war specifically to free ourselves from a government in which the citizenry had no voice. Still, our Australian cousins have to form the government that best serves your interests.

No modern democracy is perfect. I see major issues with both the US and Australian democratic systems. We here in the Antipodes do have a couple of significant advantages, though, in terms of democratic principals. All citizens of voting age in Australia are required to vote, so (theoretically at least) a greater proportion of citizens in Australia actually have a say in who governs them than citizens in the US do. Of course, I'm sure Americans would fiercely guard their right to disenfranchise themselves from the democratic process, if that is their individual wish.

Secondly, it seems (from waaaay down here anyway) that the US has a firmly entrenched 2 party state. Any political groups other than the Republicans and the Democrats are so tiny as to have virtually no relevance. We have 2 main parties here, too, but a number of minor parties regularly get enough seats, particularly in the Senate, to have some say in the political process. I know many people (including myself) who regard a 2 party state as not being a whole lot more democratic than a 1 party state.

[Targan]

Our current government will be lucky to last their current term. They are polling around 30% support which is absolutely ABYSMAL!
They lied through their teeth about a number of key issues during the last election campaign and have back flipped on some very serious issues. Some people (30%) do still support them for various reasons, however...

Yes they lied about some issues. One of the key issues to which you refer, I suspect, is the carbon tax. You know as well as I do that the current Prime Minister meant what she said when she vowed not to introduce carbon pricing but she wouldn't be the PM if she hadn't struck a deal with the Greens to form a minority government, and the cornerstone of that deal was a carbon tax. Call it lying if you want but in reality that's just political expediency. Hmm, a choice of not holding government or doing an unpopular deal and holding government. Be honest, what would you have done?

Globally almost all economies are struggling, or in few cases (not pointing the finger at anyone here Greece) are near as dammit bankrupt. What I'd like to see, but sure as hell will never happen, is some competent financial administrators brought in to sort out the mess, pay off debts and generally streamline governmental processes, without being subject to removal by politically driven mechanisms. A period of 12-36 months should be enough to get most countries back on track before handing back to the politicians (to screw up again).

But, none of that is EVER going to happen while humans remain, well, human.

Australia is currently in the strongest position economically of any developed economy in the world. You might not like the current government but they have steered Australia through a period of massive global economic turmoil very successfully. I'd rather live in Australia at the moment than just about anywhere else. Australia doesn't need any independent financial experts to fix its financial problems because it's problems are tiny compared to just about every other developed economy.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

I'd argue that the current Australian government has not done one single thing to steer Australia through a period of massive global economic turmoil. Even the Kevin Rudd government had little enough to do with Australia being in the position that she is in. What really counts for the Australian economy is having 40 years or more of selling iron ore, natural gas, wheat and wool to China, Japan and the Middle East*


* I know that that's a gross over-simplification but that's what's really saved our arse, not the (barely-existent) policies of the Gillard or Rudd governments.

[copeab]

Look at history of superior defense tanks like the German King Tiger as an example of what superior weapons and defense, but inferior numbers can do in ensuring victory.

The Tiger II also had an unreliable transmission that often left it immobile. And, for some unfathomable reason, the Germans used it to spearhead offensive operations during the Battle of the Bulge (Germany would have been better off deploying all their King Tigers on the Eastern Front).

[Panther Al]

The Tiger II also had an unreliable transmission that often left it immobile. And, for some unfathomable reason, the Germans used it to spearhead offensive operations during the Battle of the Bulge (Germany would have been better off deploying all their King Tigers on the Eastern Front).

Same with the Panzer Brigades. Those formations was tailor made for eastern front conditions with what, in hindsight, was the perfect balance of all the arms in a small agile package. On the eastern front they would have performed very well. But, with the invasion, they was force fed into the grinder that was bocage country. Also, I think they would have been much better off having the 78 SturmDivision in bocage country instead of Orsha on the eastern front, and the Lehr on the eastern front instead of the western. In the initial phases of overlord, the Panzer Division count vs. PanzerGrenadier Division count was obscenely out of balance (Something like 9 to 1, but I don't have my sources handy) Totally the wrong force balance for the conditions.


Which makes one wonder how overlord would have fared with a more reasonable mix of forces on the part of the Germans.

[dragoon500ly]

I believe I owe everybody a sincere appology.
I indicated that the US government should be run using common sense and logic. What the HELL was I thinking!!! :O

Its okay, take a deep breath and let the meds take control!

[Adm.Lee]

Same with the Panzer Brigades. Those formations was tailor made for eastern front conditions with what, in hindsight, was the perfect balance of all the arms in a small agile package. On the eastern front they would have performed very well. But, with the invasion, they was force fed into the grinder that was bocage country.

I'd need to check, but I'm pretty sure the 100-series brigades didn't show up on the Western Front until the early September counterattacks. They weren't even authorized until very late July or early August. That was well after the bocage fighting, they were shattered in the tail end of the pursuit phase in eastern France.

In the initial phases of overlord, the Panzer Division count vs. PanzerGrenadier Division count was obscenely out of balance (Something like 9 to 1, but I don't have my sources handy) Totally the wrong force balance for the conditions.

Which makes one wonder how overlord would have fared with a more reasonable mix of forces on the part of the Germans.

I think part of the German force mix was to create an armored attack force, to drive the landings back into the sea. The restricted terrain and hindrances created by Allied airpower were a bit of a surprise to the German command.

Having said that, PG divisions, set up for defense would seem more ideal for the West. As it worked out, since the panzer divisions were rarely at full tank strength, I think it worked out the same.

I'm playing the Germans in a game of GMT's Battle for Normandy, and what I really need is infantry! If I had a few more divisions of that, I could mass the panzers and try to attack with them. As it is, I've got 3 panzer & 1 PG divisions holding the line in front of the British, too spread out to hit much of anything.

[Panther Al]

I'd need to check, but I'm pretty sure the 100-series brigades didn't show up on the Western Front until the early September counterattacks. They weren't even authorized until very late July or early August. That was well after the bocage fighting, they were shattered in the tail end of the pursuit phase in eastern France.




I think part of the German force mix was to create an armored attack force, to drive the landings back into the sea. The restricted terrain and hindrances created by Allied airpower were a bit of a surprise to the German command.

Having said that, PG divisions, set up for defense would seem more ideal for the West. As it worked out, since the panzer divisions were rarely at full tank strength, I think it worked out the same.

I'm playing the Germans in a game of GMT's Battle for Normandy, and what I really need is infantry! If I had a few more divisions of that, I could mass the panzers and try to attack with them. As it is, I've got 3 panzer & 1 PG divisions holding the line in front of the British, too spread out to hit much of anything.

Now that I had a chance to look, you are right about the brigades. If you all are into what ifs, toss the 78th into it. They had more AT assets in it than can possibly be believed compared to other units of the time.

[Webstral]

There's never enough infantry. The only item in shorter supply than the infantry is good quality infantry. I would argue that high quality infantry is a nation's best MBT, so to speak. The rifles may not be able to force a quick solution the way the tanks can, but they can fight and win under far less favorable conditions.

[Webstral]

I'm not interested in getting into a measuring contest regarding whose nation is the most democratic, has the moral high ground, or what have you. I do grow weary of the cheap shots at the US. If you have something to say, say it instead of sniping as the opportunity arises. Once you snipe, don't get your panties in a bunch when a counter-sniper team is deployed. Emoticons are cutesy, but they're also the tool of choice for teenaged girls who mean to write something hurtful but don't want to be called to account for it. Let's be men. Got a problem with the US? Just say it. I can take it. I'd prefer a straightforward conversation about the things that need improvement with the US (and they are legion) to the cheap shots and sniping, emoticons included or otherwise.

[Panther Al]

There's never enough infantry. The only item in shorter supply than the infantry is good quality infantry. I would argue that high quality infantry is a nation's best MBT, so to speak. The rifles may not be able to force a quick solution the way the tanks can, but they can fight and win under far less favorable conditions.

Thats what I always liked about the 78th Sturm: They was an infantry division that had the KStN's modified to emphasize defensive fighting - and given a priority to draw men and equipment over most other heer units, so the level of the troops was somewhat better than some PzGren units, and about all Gren units. Unlike a lot of units in mid 44, they was awash - being one of the first to draw - with Panzerfausts and Schrecks, each company had a battery of PaK40's (they was supposed to have 6, not 3, but the evidence is sketchy if they ever drew 6, though solid that they got at least 3), with more in the Battalion Weapons Company (Normally, there was only 3 PaK's in each battalion - 78th's battalions had 12 or more), as well as an Organic PanzerJager BN, another PaK Company, and STuG battalion - complete with riders armed with Assault Rifles.

Granted, they was by and large foot infantry, not motorized, but that isn't a fault when it comes to Bocage country. I really believe having this division dug into the Bocage area would have been a stupidly painful unit to dig out.

[ArmySGT.]

What really counts for the Australian economy is having 40 years or more of selling iron ore, natural gas, wheat and wool to China, Japan and the Middle East*

I hope so... I am considering moving down there to Perth, and working some jobs about Karratha.

If I can get a work Visa ($350 Aus.) to apply, and the plane ticket is $1200+ US.

Be fun though.

[Targan]

I hope so... I am considering moving down there to Perth, and working some jobs about Karratha.

If I can get a work Visa ($350 Aus.) to apply, and the plane ticket is $1200+ US.

Be fun though.

Mate, good luck to you! There are jobs galore in the NW of Western Australia at the moment. Good money to be had too. I've been out of mining-related industries for some years but if there is any assistance I can offer, PM me and we can swap details.

[ArmySGT.]

Thanks.

I am a Heavy Equipment Operator, but I don't have enough experience to compete when the job pool is so small. So I have been building my business related computer skills as an Admin assistant. Not glorious but, it pays my bills.

T-90 vs M-1

T-90 is Toast. That reactive armor is not all that impressive and has been discarded in the west. Jammers have been discarded in the West too.

The West is going to active defenses that shoot down ATGMs. Look to see those on M1A2s in the near future.